What a world to inhabit - watch LeBron beast all year and wait for him to lose (any loss will do, context be damned) to a 73 win team plus Durant so you can then declare "victory". Cool bro.

Laker fan who suddenly turned into a warrior fan just cited a four game sample as evidence LOL

Quoting this for posterity in case it somehow gets deleted. So so so so amazing.

and this isnt accurate either. mo and varejao were healthy for the first half of the year and the cavs were completely atrocious.

varejao played 31 games and then went down for the year. mo was healthy for almost all of those games. the cavs won 8 of those games.

Golden State GOAT

Sorry, wrong thread

Thanks for quoting, thought everyone had missed how much LOL that post contains

The fact he brought up mo and Andy... not even worth a response. The pro MJ crowd are not bright. Lock it down it's over

Better than consistently making excuses and delving into fan fiction to explain why your guy isn't as good as my guy.

The cream rises to the top, the spurs with Kawhi made the warriors with Durant look like clowns. To be expected, Kawhi is better than LeBron and seems to have the same drive as Jordan where everything is left on the court.

Straight up, right now today Kawhi is better than LeBron. Kawhi isn't close to Jordan. After LeBron loses another finals this year, to either team, that will cement his place in the pecking order even further.

This guy posts up a midget and takes it on some fat dough boy with a pubic mound for a chin and bron stans get super super. Pretty pathetic.

And what do you think that four game sample is supposed to be evidence of?

This is a dumb narrative and it's bizarre how many people actually believe it. I'm smarter than that, and so is Pat Riley per his "Disease of More" theory.

MJ got a break, came back on a mission to prove he was still the best (particularly after losing to the Magic in '95).

That break enabled Kukoc to get acclimated before MJ could crush his soul, to phase out players who were ready to move on (Armstrong, Grant) and bring on players who were motivated to have some parades of their own (Kukoc, Harper).

It also gave Pippen and whoever else came on during those two seasons (Longley and/or Wennington, maybe Kerr) a chance to get a taste of losing in the playoffs.

Their final title before the retirement was a grind against a Suns team that was good but not terribly formidable. Suns would have won that one if they didn't play terrified the first two games. Bulls were on a downward trajectory. First year MJ comes back they win 72 games and boatrace everyone. The reset was the reason why, and NOT indicative of what would have happened if he had played the two years prior.

They might have won in '94 and maybe even '95, but by that point everyone would have hated each other and they would have broken up like a boy band at its peak. Disease of more. It's a thing. Be grateful it happened the way it did, two symmetrical three year stretches separated by a timeout, which also made the Chicago fans appreciate the second run that much more. But don't say they would have won eight in a row because that's dumb and wrong.

To be fair the cavs were atrocious in the finals with bron, to the tune of sub 85 pts in games 3&4 of a spurs sweep

More likely than not their testicles were still hiding in their body after being exposed as a lucky team that ran well in the regular season then **** their drawers when faced with a real team, not unlike the hawks of coty bud.

It's not uncommon to have a team that's an utter fraud, the hawks of a few years ago, the current Celtics. It is rare to have a fraud team bandied about like a major accomplishment like brons spurs swept cavs , but I guess you need to resort to these tactics to try and construct an argument to challenge the actual goat legacy.

Gerb iLL has convinced me


LeBron > Jordan

Nice work. Looks like I'll have to read up on this OOT ridiculousness.

That's fine, I already acknowledged that the Cavs were going to suck without Lebron, that much is obvious. But Mo/Varejao still combined for 78 less games played in 2011, and Shaq was gone. My point is that it was a very different team, even if Lebron had been there, and that is accurate.

It really is amazing how often I've watched teams make the NBA finals that really didn't look like they were anywhere near the 2nd best team in the league. This is mainly because the Eastern Conference has been a joke (other than Lebron and a very balanced Pistons team for a couple of years) for the last 20 years.

The 76ers, the Nets, the Hawks, the Magic, and the Cavs all had years where they looked like they probably weren't even in the top 4 teams in the league, and yet made the finals, only to completely overmatched in wildly uninteresting and anti-climactic finals.

If LeBron was there what is your o/u for them? Is it 8 more Pythag wins than they actually won? Also, lucky for you there are multiple instances..do the same for the '14-'15 Heat. Actually don't bother, I'll do it for you.

They actually ended up doing worse. Looking forward to you explaining how Shane Battier and Ray Allen were just as meaningful as LeBron

They also lost James Jones

LeBron made his 11th 1st team All NBA tying Malone and Kobe for the record.

He has 7 straight playoff games with 33+ points passing Jordan who did it in 6 straight.

I feel confident that it would have been significantly more than 8 if Bron had been there, though I think the actual number for the Jordan Bulls is 10-11 more Pythag wins. I also think I was quick to point out that your post had merit with regards to showing that Jordan had a good team around him, as illustrated here:

This just in, Scottie Pippen was really ****ing good at basketball.




Lucky for me I didn't say anything about the Heat. I realize that you did, but I specifically mentioned the Bulls and Cavs because that was the part of your post I took issue with.

nope and nope

Some of you normally reasonable guys are getting dragged down to the crazy MJ fan levels. There was nothing at all wrong with Jmill's post.

There were factors other than Jordan leaving that made the Bulls better than the previous year. There were factors other than LeBron leaving that made the Cavs worse than the previous year. Thus, strictly looking at the win differences will give a slightly biased picture.

But go on, keep arguing that Michael Jordan is worth 2 wins/season in general and Lebron is worth 42. You don't sound ridiculous at all.

The point of the the post is to show that the Bulls had significantly more talent and performed better without superstar Jordan than LBJ's teams without him. Which is undeniably true.

Obviously Jordan is worth more than 2 wins a season.

I'm sorry if it appeared that was what I was arguing. That wasn't my intent at all. I think Michael Jordan is indisputably one of the two best basketball players to ever live. I was mostly arguing against the air of invincibility Jordan's rep as "the ultimate winner" seems to have. The truth of the matter is the difference between Michael Jordan in 1988 and Michael Jordan is close to nothing, if anything '88 MJ was superior. The difference was his teammates and his competition. The fact that the '94 Bulls remained competitive is relevant to that. I prob got carried away.

A huge part of the MJ>LBJ argument hinders on Jordans teams success. As is it we happen to have a lot of evidence that isolating LeBron from teams was more impactful than isolating Jordan. The degree in which that affected each team is debatable, but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue losing Jordan hurt his team more than losing LeBron did. Is that the end all be all in this discussion? No of course not. But handwaving it away bc it's not 100% perfect (like any stat is) is wrong too imo.

Lebron is looking awesome but to be fair if the officials are just going to let him run at the basket as hard as he can, slam into a guy with both feet planted on the floor and call nothing if it goes in or call a foul if it misses there are alot of guys that could put up monster numbers if they got this kind of treatment from refs.

The number of times LaBron is hacked/bumped without a call because he is such a specimen heavily outweighs the times he is not called for an offensive foul.