Hahahahahahahaha.

empirical evidence.

765 nba games, about 150+ more in high school, and he's never dominated a game off-the-ball.

what more do i need shawn?

where's that mcbeef table?

You need a ****ing cogent argument.

Here's a hint, imagine that Mr. Ball Pounder himself, Chris Paul, was drafted by the Spurs instead of Parker. Do you really think CP3 would be incapable of running Pop's offensive scheme?

maybe you can show me vid of a game where lebron dominated the game off-the-ball.

there is far more footage of lebron on youtube than there is of mj. shouldn't be that hard.

Jesus Christ, you are simply ******ed. I'm out (again).

its not a horrible analogy, but not that great of one either.

parker 1) sets screens, 2) moves a lot without the ball, and 3) simply gets out of the way and lets other guys make plays - these are the things paul does not currently do, but sure, he could learn to do those things - but it took parker a lot of time to dominate under pop's system and he was more used to doing these things anyway coming from europe and playing professionally as a teen with much more established stars.

and in addition to the aforementioned, wing players like bron and mj have to post up and operate from pre-dribble-stationary positions in order to dominate off the ball (as they will be catching the ball in mid-range areas a lot). and lebron's skill in these areas is not in the vicinity of being in the vicinity of mj. just look at the videotape.

so not only is lebron not used to setting screens or moving without the ball, but he doesn't have the footwork or skill that mj had in spots he'd be catching the ball.

I hope you're expecting to have someone else jump in:

i really think for cp3 and lebron, who came up so much differently than mj, isiah, or even tony parker - to do these things would be kind of like torture, like doing chores.

i mean, pop used to be on parker soooooper hard. i think cp3 and pop would have butted heads.

wouldnt shock me if cp3 was like, "i want a different coach." he's just never had to do these things.

cp3 doesn't even realize why he lost. he thinks he needs a black coach.

i surely love the debate, but it's all good.

i really don't believe anyone can effectively argue against the point i'm making.

it's clear as day.

hes got 2000 posts...hed have like 50 if u tards didnt engage him for days on end

here we have one person voicing their opinion, providing information to back it up, and another just attacking their opponent instead of stating facts. TWD easily winning this debate.

How is this a debate?

Ask again in 5+ years.

lol@information to back it up

I'm not sure if you can be the goat if you can't defend 99% of the players in the NBA like LeBron is able to do.

There's about 10 centers he can't guard, that's about it.

I'm not sure you can be the GOAT if LeBron is 2 inches taller, 40 lbs heavier and stronger, and just as fast making him even more powerful.

You see how ridiculous your arbitrary goal posts are?

Because the ball in the hands of the best playmaker and top 5 passing player in the league is maximizing opportunities to win basketball games. Why do you think Shane Battier and Ray Allen get so many open corner 3s passes from LeBron? Like duh.

Why would you want the best ball handler in the league to play off the ball? Why don't you tell Magic Johnson that playing off the ball would have created more opportunities for everyone else, and he'd be 9/9 in the finals instead of 5/9? I'm sure all the basketball savants in the world would agree with that.


I still think Jordan is the greatest player ever, but Jordan stans make the most horrendously bad arguments that it's so difficult to defend them. Stick to the 6 rangzz argument because honestly, that's the last thing left for LeBron to do. Strictly on the court, he's as good as Jordan ever was.

thats what i think. lebron is jordan but bigger and bigger is better. jordan had more WIM though, wasnt a pu.ssy like lebron has a lil bitch in him, but lebron still has some WIM just not jordan WIM and jordan has 0 bitch and 6 rangs. so once lebron gets the rings, he is jordan but bigger and his WIM will go up and his bitch go down. so its about the rings.

MJ would not have been called for charging and given a T. MJ got every close call during those 6 championship years.

I think there is a difference between being better and being more dominate. Shaq was the more dominant player, but Kobe was clearly the better player.

Agree 100%. Sometimes it was pretty laughable, like when he raked across Reggie's face and punched him...and then Reggie got ejected.

LMAO explain this

It occurred to me late that the AIDS option was a vote for Magic Johnson. At the time, I thought I was just voting for AIDS.

Ed bringing the AIDS to an AIDS thread. I think you mean more skillful, but who really cares about skill.

If ballhandling is a measure of skill Rafer Alston would be hall of fame first ballot nominee

Really ?
None of those Knicks teams are better than this spurs team ?

Prime Patrick Ewing

The big 3 for spurs is old old old

every goat candidate has a unique style of play. accordingly, goat candidates have an optimal group of teammates that can surround him.

that's the job of gms and some do it better than others.

it took some time, but eventually mj had the optimal supporting cast around him for his skills (i.e. no skilled center so mj could be the go-to post player).

ditto for lebron in that he has the perfect supporting cast for his style (shooters to hit off penetration).

but if lebron was put on mj's bulls, his style of play would not work like it does now, because he wouldn't have near the shooters. so his pg-style would fail with the cast mj had. brick city.

i wish i could say the same thing vice versa - my initial argument before the ninja edit was that mj probably couldn't play his style on this year's heat team and have the same success, but he probably still could - it's just that a heavier allocation of 3 pt looks would be coming off of post action rather than penetration.

just something else to consider.
.