The thread that will go on for years..........
























vs.

woj wrote a pretty great article, the burden on lebron really is insane. he has to do everything for this team. if he has an off shooting/distributing/rebounding/defending night no one has shown the ability to remotely pick up the slack. and hes basically delivered every single night for these past 2 postseasons.

Yeah I really liked that article. Lebron is just so ****ing amazing and > MJ. First time I've ever truly felt that way, but he really has overtaken the GOAT imo.

RE:Cleveland. I want this to happen so bad and think it will. The main reason is that it's the ultimate trump card for building his legacy and gives him something Jordan never had--the ability to win a ship with two teams.

Not to re-start another iteration of this discussion, but is there a link to where the LBJ>MJ people have given a good argument? And do they generally mean single-season peak, 3-5 year peak, or their own projections of career?

i think if mj played tonight instead of 20 years ago, you would probably take this back. but after 20 years, sure.. bron's better. he crushed it last night.

as if mj didn't have to do everything for his team and take a higher scoring load then bron does..

if mj had gotten to continue running the doug collins offense like bron currently gets to do, rather than the triangle, his numbers would be even more superior to brons than they already are. but he had to give up win share to steve kerr, as the triangle (correctly) dictates.
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long day today. close to conceding that lbj's peak = mj's peak.

need to see him domo the spurs.

if peaks are the same, the length of peak becomes the deciding factor. advantage mj.

also hard for me to get over the difference in comp.

these pacers possibly = mj's knicks (although pacers lack depth and style of toughness & heart)....

but the 1998-2000 pacers (that almost beat mj in 1998 and took lakers to close 6 games) easily > than this pacer team.

that's why i need to see bron domo the spurs. then i'll concede, lebron's peak, more or less = mj's. then my post count will drop considerably.

legoat's peak >>>> lolmj vs the incrediweak comp of 20yrs years ago

your trolling needs a lot of work. a good troll must have a (preferrably annoying) element of truth to it that goes against the consensus.

hard to do, and can't be too outlandish.

the goat trolls are actually not trolls are all. they are just statements that are ahead of their time.

I think LBJ and MJ's peaks are so close that you can argue either way. I'd give the nod to LBJ because he's doing it against stiffer competition and he seems to be more adaptable to his lineups. Need him to play 1-4? no prob. Need a scorer? easy peasy. Need someone to get a bunch of great shooters open looks? check. Need someone locked down for a series? Hello Bron.

I think MJ is perhaps the better scorer but I'm not convinced. I would take LBJ pretty much everywhere else...

[edit] And before we argue competition level based on relative stats or whatever, let's remember how much more popular BBall is internationally now, and how much training/coaching has become specialized.... also how hard these guys work now ldo. eg the competition is better.

this is the cliffs of the argument.

If you just dropped prime LBJ into the 90s, he'd be unstoppable. Adjusting for era you can still say MJ was better, but straight-up no adjustment LBJ is just too big and strong.

it's not a troll, the truth is just that simple. i get that you're like 45 and think things were always better in the olds days but they weren't

Michael Jordan never faced a team as good as the 2012/2013 Spurs his whole career. It really is the ultimate test for LeBron. If he can lead this gimpy roster past San Antonio, he's pretty much the GOAT.

Jazz had better SRS in one the finals matchups with the Bulls than the Spurs, Sonics were better as well.

the main reason why we should all be lolling at the 80s and most of the 90s was that you weren't allowed to zone, you had to either commit to the dbl or just let the dude go 1o1... LOLOL at lebron ever losing if current teams had to operate under that ridiculous restriction

lebrons on ball defense this series has been really bad. Not just for lebron, just bad overall. George has blown by him with little resistance multiple times and has gotten wide open looks from 3 as well. The old guys wanting to be nostalgic is just as reasonable as the younger crew wanting to be the ones who experienced the goat. Im 27 so the early 90s jordan is a little hazy memory wise for me, but i vividly remember late 90s jordan...id bet almost all of the lebron=goat people are 25 or younger

thats a ******ed argument mcbeef as jordan did rarely lose...and was rarely stopped. Bron has already choked in the finals and got decimated. The jordan vs lebron argument is so terrible though. Just give it up fellas, we'll all be better for it.

VV-PG has been shut down in other games but obviously has had a few good games. Do we have accurate defensive stats for players in the playoffs--is it really that meaningful? In the regular season, LBJ was pretty legit defensively. MJ like Bron like Kobe, haven't always guarded the #1 option on the opposing D and when they do, it typically doesn't go that well when they are shouldering the offensive load. MJ had Pip, Bron has Battier, Kobe has Ron Ron.

how much did lebron guard durant last finals? quite a lot iirc

maybe, I know Harden was on LBJ most of the series last year and that was LOL on both sides of the ball.

mcbeef, i just said its really just not a good argument and both sides are so biased its impossible to discuss it with any type of objectivity. I dont remember if he did that great of a job on durant, i think so though. Its not like Lebron is not a good defender, he is a great defender. The standard is set by people like mcbeef, capone. Running around proclaiming goat all the time means when he plays ****ty defense, hes going to get called out on it.

i don't say he is goat all the time. MJ is my favorite player all time in any sport, the problem I have is when people don't think players can get close to him. While some of his records won't be broken, he can still be passed even if you don't exactly do it the way he did it.

lebrons games are really easy to analyze now since we see them all and they are in our memory. we forget that jordan had some bad games at times in the playoffs, but b/c he had a dominating number of great games we just forget them. when lebron ever does something poorly, we hound on it b/c it's happening in real time even though he probably has 20-1 good-bad game ratios. his bad games are even pretty damn good for 99% of the league.

Jordan's career low turnover rate is pretty impressive given how much he dominated the ball if you're looking for a tiebreaker

Dominating the ball to the extent Jordan did helps you lower your turnover rate, every shot you take goes in the denominator and lowers your turnover percentage (although he was still really, really good at not turning it over)

Jordan has the best selling shoe in sports history.

In the 70's TV didn't want to show the NBA playoffs. Bird, Magic, and MJ saved basketball. Ruth saved baseball. That was almost 100 years ago. No one remembers seeing Ruth play.