Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

View Poll Results: GOAT?
labron 121 29.66%
MJ (Michael or Maple) 213 52.21%
Therapist 7 1.72%
George Mikan 2 0.49%
Shaq Attaq 16 3.92%
Wilt the Stilt (100 pts yo) 10 2.45%
Timmy "Big Fundamentals" Duncan 17 4.17%
"Roger Murdock" 3 0.74%
Enchanted AIDS Wang (er, HIV+?) 7 1.72%
Larry Legend (+ HM to Bill Russell's laugh) 12 2.94%
Voters: 408. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2017, 11:24 PM   #4776
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 36,180
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

whoops, i forgot to delete wade.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 11:31 PM   #4777
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 36,180
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

For Jordan:

Finals:
Malone
Stockton
Payton
Drexler
Magic
Worthy
Barkley

EC:
(never beat Bird) but Bird/McHale/Parish
Thomas/Dumars
O'neal
Ewing
Miller
Zo
Wilkins

Probably forgot others.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 11:34 PM   #4778
tabbaker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tabbaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 9,091
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

You see Jordan made me feel good when I watched him play. Then LeBron came along and took those feels away from me and reminded how old and irrelevant I am.
tabbaker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 11:44 PM   #4779
candybar
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,578
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerb iLL View Post
KG and Ray Allen were 36 and Pierce was 34 when LeBron beat them in seven then rolled over and let Dirk get comfy. Sweet win over the geriatric Celtics.
Lebron also beat them the year before. Stockton and Malone were in the same age range when Jordan beat them.
candybar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 11:45 PM   #4780
Tien
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Tien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: INFOWARS ALL DAY
Posts: 6,002
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
not Bron's fault that Lebron has made teams like Rose's Bulls, George's Pacers, Lowry's Raptors look bad. Wouldn't they look much better if they made the finals? Can't you say the same thing about team's that would have been considered great in the Jordan era looking worse because he was there to stop them?

many of the teams who you consider ****, have won 60+ games like the Hawks or the Bulls.
Jordan's eastern conference teams were better. Faced HOF Pistons, Knicks with Ewing, Pacers, Miami Heat with Zo

But LeBron's finals competition >>>>>> Jordan's.

Dynasty Spurs 3x.
An OKC team with 3 future MVPs (They backdoor swept the 20-0 Spurs in 2012).
Dynasty GSW 3x.
Tien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 01:30 AM   #4781
BossmanJR
adept
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 772
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tien View Post
Jordan's eastern conference teams were better. Faced HOF Pistons, Knicks with Ewing, Pacers, Miami Heat with Zo


it took jordan four freakin tries to beat the HOF Pistons though. ewing knicks and reggie pacers are just elevated to help jordans legacy and because they were cool games on nbc. ewing was obviously very good, second leading scorer was a tweener chucker who got a rep because he was undrafted scrappy player in biggest media market. bulls took the knicks to 7 WITHOUT mj and got fkd out of game 5. outscored them in that series, and that was probably the knicks BEST team. pacers lol. never even had a top 10 player. reggie is like klay thompson level. a couple 3rd team all nbas. best teams jordan faced in the east once he started ringing were 95 and 96 magic, lost once and beat them the next year
BossmanJR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 01:40 AM   #4782
BossmanJR
adept
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 772
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

and i dont think lebron has faced relatively tough teams or many true stars in the east either. im not sure who has had it tougher, and i dont care, i dont see how it would matter. if anything, it would hurt mj stan argument if lebron had more competition because it would likely help his finals record.
BossmanJR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 01:49 AM   #4783
Banzai-
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,376
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NLSoldier View Post
comes down to how much you value rings on a resume. and i said jordan's resume was currently better, we're talking about a hypothetical where lebron beats this warrior team this year and gets to 4. those 4, given the context/competition and other stuff he's done (like '07) would be at least equal to jordan's resume imo.
And I'm saying that's ridiculous. 4 < 6. 4 MVP < 5. Talking like Lebron's 4 is better than Jordan's 6, when Lebron was SO SO close to losing two of them, is insanity.

Don't get me wrong I'm not some hard "MJ is GOAT" person I think it's super close in the overall argument. But resumes, as of a hypothetical July where LeBron is up to 4, it's still clearly Jordan (though I would probably agree in that case that Lebron would be favourite to surpass him by end of career in resume too).
Banzai- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 01:56 AM   #4784
Heroball
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,748
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Beating this Warriors team twice (if he equals/surpasses last year's Finals performance) would be more impressive than Jordan's entire resume imo.
Heroball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 02:19 AM   #4785
Carnivore
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,203
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Reggie was way better than klay thompson....
Carnivore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 02:52 AM   #4786
DarkOne
old hand
 
DarkOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Capua
Posts: 1,920
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Obviously Jordan faced better relative competition in the playoffs. LeBron just cakewalks to the finals every year and then gets tested against the best team in the West.

Equally obvious is the fact that Jordan played on way better teams. He was surrounded by much better players relative to the era, and Phil Jackson was so much better than any coach LeBron had it's laughable. Pippen was MVP caliber when Jordan was playing baseball. The Cavs couldn't make the playoffs when LeBron was in Miami.

I think if LeBron can keep playing at this level for a few more years and get a couple more titles, he'll go down as GOAT.
DarkOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 06:24 AM   #4787
mullen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
mullen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,861
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off View Post
if you can't see that i'm saying



Wade and Bosh and Kyrie and Love were/are really good and the East has sucked for almost all of labron's career



idk if I can help you


Kyrie and Love were career losers until LBJ came along. When LBJ doesn't play since he returned, they're like 4-21 or something hilarious.

Wade was already declining when LBJ came along and hasn't had any success whatsoever without him since.

I agree with the thread that despite Jordan facing tougher conference competition, that Lebron has faced MUCH tougher Finals competition. His team's betting odds of winning the Finals, on average, is significantly lower than Jordan's. He will be an underdog once again this season. He's also so good that he makes solid teams look like YMCA scrubs, so that doesn't help.
mullen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 06:46 AM   #4788
rafiki
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
rafiki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 31,217
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

When this discussion started a few years back, as an old I laughed and thought it wasn't even worth discussing. Now I think it's way closer than I ever thought it could be. 1a/1b as others have said.

Only reason I have Jordan ever so slightly ahead is because he never gave you the impression you could beat him. I'm trying to think about another athlete in any sport that I've seen that refused to give an inch, anywhere. He also redefined not just his sport, but SPORTS. And by virtue of doing that first (which is not Lebron's fault), he sort of gets this defacto GOAT title. But it's certainly not because of his ability to play the game better than Lebron over the course of a whole career.

If you asked me today to draft players and build a franchise, I take a 19 year old Bron #1 overall. If you asked me who I give the ball to with 11 seconds left down 1 in the 4th in game 7, I take Jordan.
rafiki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 08:41 AM   #4789
LuckyLloyd
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
LuckyLloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: There's always next year...
Posts: 10,808
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

rafiki with an entirely reasonable post
LuckyLloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 08:47 AM   #4790
NLSoldier
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
NLSoldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hello Ted
Posts: 23,489
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai- View Post
And I'm saying that's ridiculous. 4 < 6. 4 MVP < 5. Talking like Lebron's 4 is better than Jordan's 6, when Lebron was SO SO close to losing two of them, is insanity.

Don't get me wrong I'm not some hard "MJ is GOAT" person I think it's super close in the overall argument. But resumes, as of a hypothetical July where LeBron is up to 4, it's still clearly Jordan (though I would probably agree in that case that Lebron would be favourite to surpass him by end of career in resume too).
Guess it's just difference of opinion but when you go up against the greatest regular season team of all time and beat them and then they go out and sign the 2nd best player in the entire league and you (hypothetically) beat them again, that's worth like 5 rings right there imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroball View Post
Beating this Warriors team twice (if he equals/surpasses last year's Finals performance) would be more impressive than Jordan's entire resume imo.
^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafiki View Post
When this discussion started a few years back, as an old I laughed and thought it wasn't even worth discussing. Now I think it's way closer than I ever thought it could be. 1a/1b as others have said.

Only reason I have Jordan ever so slightly ahead is because he never gave you the impression you could beat him. I'm trying to think about another athlete in any sport that I've seen that refused to give an inch, anywhere. He also redefined not just his sport, but SPORTS. And by virtue of doing that first (which is not Lebron's fault), he sort of gets this defacto GOAT title. But it's certainly not because of his ability to play the game better than Lebron over the course of a whole career.

If you asked me today to draft players and build a franchise, I take a 19 year old Bron #1 overall. If you asked me who I give the ball to with 11 seconds left down 1 in the 4th in game 7, I take Jordan.
This is about as reasonable of a pro-jordan post as I've seen ITT. Seems a little unfair that Lebron basically needs to super-definitively surpass jordan in multiple ways since jordan came first and redefined sports as you say (and i agree with that statement), but that's probably how it will be looked at by a lot of people. maybe i underrated the Ali element that was brought up earlier.
NLSoldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 09:55 AM   #4791
rafiki
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
rafiki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 31,217
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NLSoldier View Post


This is about as reasonable of a pro-jordan post as I've seen ITT. Seems a little unfair that Lebron basically needs to super-definitively surpass jordan in multiple ways since jordan came first and redefined sports as you say (and i agree with that statement), but that's probably how it will be looked at by a lot of people. maybe i underrated the Ali element that was brought up earlier.
I guess after reading this, it's possible I'm even selling Lebron short on the "ball in his hands to end the game" argument: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/1...-winning-shots

So this may really be a tie for me now.
rafiki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 11:42 AM   #4792
Heroball
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,748
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

I think if LBJ beats this Warriors team he will have redefined sports in a way. He will have basically said "you cannot artificially put together a team that can beat the one I'm on." Jordan, for all his admitted unbeatableness in the 90s, never stared down the barrel of a superteam AND then stared the down the barrel of a genetically modified superteam and didn't blink.

The fact that, as Brad Stevens pointed out after Game 1, LeBron seems to be getting better almost makes me wonder if he has 4-6 years left of auto-Finals appearances. Not the 2-3 commonly believed before the Playoffs started this year. If that's the case, he has much better odds of getting to 6 or 7.
Heroball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 11:44 AM   #4793
EddyB66
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
EddyB66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 20,245
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroball View Post
I think if LBJ beats this Warriors team he will have redefined sports in a way. He will have basically said "you cannot artificially put together a team that can beat the artificially built one I'm on." Jordan, for all his admitted unbeatableness in the 90s, never stared down the barrel of a superteam AND then stared the down the barrel of a genetically modified superteam and didn't blink.

The fact that, as Brad Stevens pointed out after Game 1, LeBron seems to be getting better almost makes me wonder if he has 4-6 years left of auto-Finals appearances. Not the 2-3 commonly believed before the Playoffs started this year. If that's the case, he has much better odds of getting to 6 or 7.
FYP
EddyB66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 12:59 PM   #4794
rtd353
veteran
 
rtd353's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,366
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Saying Lebron beat the warriors last year is like saying "MJ beat half the Dream Team" if the 92 Dream Team scrimmaged each other and MJ's side won. the talent disparity was barely noticable if there even was one at all Love completely outplayed Curry last year the Cavs were basically not even guarding Harrison Barnes and he still shot 3-37 or something atrocious like that and Anderson Varajeo and Festus Ezeli were playing crucial minutes for them. This year is obv a lot different.
rtd353 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 01:02 PM   #4795
Fallen Hero
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Fallen Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 20,116
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtd353 View Post
Saying Lebron beat the warriors last year is like saying "MJ beat half the Dream Team" if the 92 Dream Team scrimmaged each other and MJ's side won. the talent disparity was barely noticable if there even was one at all Love completely outplayed Curry last year the Cavs were basically not even guarding Harrison Barnes and he still shot 3-37 or something atrocious like that and Anderson Varajeo and Festus Ezeli were playing crucial minutes for them. This year is obv a lot different.
warriors fans are the best

Kevin Love and his .468ts on 18usg outplayed Curry with .580 on 31 usg. Kevin Love had a 95 ortg while playing with Lebron freaking James
Fallen Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 01:23 PM   #4796
GeoffRas22
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
GeoffRas22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: he's leaning in the doorway, right?
Posts: 37,293
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Kevin Love and his .468ts on 18usg outplayed Curry with .580 on 31 usg. Kevin Love had a 95 ortg while playing with Lebron freaking James
Amazing. This is what happens when people have a preconceived notion and are determined, by any means necessary, to stick to it.
GeoffRas22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 01:30 PM   #4797
DisGunBGud
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DisGunBGud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: GENIE LAND
Posts: 18,111
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

LeBron didn't beat the Warriors last year. Two things lost that series. Dray getting suspended, momentum shift. And then Kerr playing Ezili and continuing to play Ezili in one of the worst handful of minute stretches of basketball I've ever seen from one player in my life.

Warriors in 5/6 is inevitable, accept it. If you're stocking up on Cleveland because you think they "flipped the switch" I have a banana I want to put in your tailpipe.

Cliffs: LeBron might be GOAT if he can win this unwinnable series.
DisGunBGud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 01:36 PM   #4798
Fallen Hero
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Fallen Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 20,116
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

those damn momentums keep shifting by themselves
Fallen Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 01:38 PM   #4799
72off
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
72off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WATZ POPPIIN!!
Posts: 48,958
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisGunBGud View Post
LeBron didn't beat the Warriors last year. Two things lost that series. Dray getting suspended, momentum shift. And then Kerr playing Ezili and continuing to play Ezili in one of the worst handful of minute stretches of basketball I've ever seen from one player in my life.
also Curry & Iggy were clearly playing hurt

but hey, a win's a win
72off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 01:38 PM   #4800
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 55,994
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtd353 View Post
Saying Lebron beat the warriors last year is like saying "MJ beat half the Dream Team" if the 92 Dream Team scrimmaged each other and MJ's side won. the talent disparity was barely noticable if there even was one at all Love completely outplayed Curry last year the Cavs were basically not even guarding Harrison Barnes and he still shot 3-37 or something atrocious like that and Anderson Varajeo and Festus Ezeli were playing crucial minutes for them. This year is obv a lot different.
seriously dude. cancel your account. try again. every post is horrible.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online