again, punishing Lebron for taking his bad teams further. Jordan lost in the first round, he didn't make it to the ECF to have "losses of this magnitude"

I mean, there are good arguments in favor of MJ, some guys already made a few itt, why must you be this bad at watching basketball?

But really who cares? Lebron was absurd that series. I don't think I've ever seen a player dominate like that. The team was totally exposed. Howard crushed and they launched a ton of 3s. Mike brown was utterly overmatched and didn't make a single adjustment.

Still, they prolly win if mo Williams and Deloitte just hit their open shots.

how bout games 4 & 5 of the '88 ECSF? (23 pts on 22 shots, 25 pts on 20 shots) both pretty similar to that LBJ game 6 @ Orlando. game 4 of the '89 ECF? Bulls up 2-1 after stealing home court and Jordan goes 5-15. Game 5 of the '90 ECF 7-19. im not gonna go through every box score, but i promise you more of these games exist (although im sure excuses are already geared up for each one) you just don't hear skip bayless rehashing them every possible chance.

and the thing is, i dont even care that those games exist. jordan is very clearly an amazing playoff performer. it would be insane to expect him to be unbelievable in every single game his whole career. but lebron is too! lebron has been incredible in every single playoff series his entire career except one (dallas finals, which to this day is unexplainable to me), to the point that people are like "but ya remember that one game?". it's just ridiculous to me how much higher a standard LeBron is held to, especially if there's "no argument for him being the GOAT" as some would have you believe.

Jordan also never had a series win as big as the one Lebron just had, I mean wtf did I even just witness lol. Like 2016 Lebron > any iteration of Jordan I don't care what none of y'all say or whose daddy had tickets to the Jazz game

In game 4 he made 2 fts to tie it with .5s left for ot.

In ot he scored 10 pts.

Not clutch tho.

It's just idiocy. Didn't think legend was a clown but his whole argument is that he lost on a fairly efficient 25/7/7 game. No context. No consideration about Lebron putting up prolly the best 5 game stretch against one of the best interior defenders in history. No consideration that the team played like ass and that game was over by halftime.

Just that losing invalidates everything.

Are you so tilted you quoted the wrong post of mine? There was another about refuting even one point, and about how easy it should be considering I was exaggerating with most of it.

It's right here in case you're too triggered: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=3420


Also, how would that conversation with the psychiatrist go?

"Doc, these guys said a certain basketball player was the greatest of all time, and I said he wasn't quite as great as they think, but still great, so one of them told me to seek help and, well, uh, here I am."

Friendly warning: don't tell the shrink you think Kyrie should have won mvp unless you want to be committed

Jordan couldnt even beat college players without multiple Hall of Fame teammates and coaching, lol.

Jordan was literally losing to crappy white players at the same age Lebron was taking terrible teams deep into the NBA Playoffs, but he made it to the finals so that's just an 0-1.

Lol

Fair enough but what about co-MVP, will that save me from the straight-jackets, or did the NBA stop doing that bull****? Them both scoring exactly 41 to start the comeback was too poetic.

It really doesn't, still an easy straight jacket

Yeah, but he's playing YOUR box-score-game, as you didn't address his other points, 2 of which are:

1. MJ getting stripped by goddamn Nick Anderson stands out so much because it's one of the few times MJ made such an elementary mistake, whether those mistakes lead to turnovers, bad shots, etc. MJ had sooo many "bad" games because sometimes the ball just doesn't go in the ****ing hole, but he's probably the smartest and mistake-free player in history to play his style.

2. MJ went from the dunk-in-your-face or circus shot guy with a suspect outside shot, to one of the best pure shooters, not just scorers, in the league. This made him just as if not more effective in his 30s. He has able to do with footwork and agility and 1 screen what it took Reggie Miller 20 screens to do, and better.


Honestly I'm trying to be diplomatic and not go hard about this contrasting with LBJ, but also because it seems obvious.

his career TOV% is just 3% lower than LBJ's despite an AST% 10% lower. lbj's efficiency when it comes to turnovers is FAR more impressive given his style of play. note, its really really easy not to turn it over when you're shooting the ball as high % of possessions as MJ did

yet he's a worse career 3 pt shooter (32.7 to 34) and has a worse career true shooting % (57% to 58%) than LBJ? see this is the problem, nostalgia/lack of objectivity makes people just say things bc its what they remember. Rose colored glasses etc. Now I'm not claiming LBJ is a better shooter than Jordan-think their ft disparity proves otherwise and Jordans %s are dragged down a bit by his Wizard years- but those #s aren't exactly meaningless either. the exaggeration and propaganda that always comes along with being a Jordan fan is out of control.

I think that's the biggest problem with the MJ side in this debate, and also the one that leads a decent % in that camp to think Kobe>LBJ as well. They give bonus points for style and how it's done. Cool footwork from the midrange is more appealing aesthetically than bullying a defender to the rim and getting a layup. But they're both worth two points, and the goal of the game is to score the most points you can while trying to hold hold your opponent to the least points you can. I'm not saying to ignore eye test completely. Stats are flawed and can certainly be misleading, and of course context is extremely important. I'm just saying that I think that side of the argument has a tendency to overrate what they see. Which might cause someone to say that LeBron an inch shorter and 30 pounds lighter would be out of the league.

If Jordan had not had behind him the team he had behind him, he would basically have been a Dominique Wilkins that played defense.

No I was lolling at you admitting to saying a bunch of idiotic things and then hiding behind "oh I was just exaggerating, jokes on you guys"!

And that is indeed the post I quoted and addressed.

Cmon man, try to keep up. It's really not that hard. I'd imagine this is your way of trolling tho and I will readily admit it is quite tilting. Obv post addresses obv post. It even quotes said post. Feign bewilderment and claim post addresses a different post. Then act like you're winning.

Jordan also competed in the slam dunk contest and won it twice. LeBron has never and will never, despite the fact that his athleticism has been rejuvenated since his two week stops in Miami.

The slam dunk contest stopped being something people cared about like 20 years ago.

Even then it was a joke. Jordan didn't deserve to win.

sort by rangz + dunk contest wins

Oh **** guys I totally forgot about how important that dunk contest is. See now my Jr rider fanboism seems a lot more reasonable eh

Based on this new line of thinking Zach Lavine has some legit GOAT equity

Hasn't lost a single finals. Story checks out

He's also already matched Jordan in career Dunk Contest Titles in his first 2 years in the league.

LOL dunk contest are you ****in serious?

Jordan wasn't afraid to fail, he made a global icon logo from his dunk silhouette, Bron is dancing like a fool during intros.

Launching a global empire and brand that makes him still more profitable than 99% of the NBA while going a pristine 6-6 or taking steroids your whole career and going 3-4 in a conference where until this year sub. 500 teams were the 7-8 seeds regularly.