Hey guys no evidence needed. JUST WATCH!!! You casual basketball fans that have just started watching in the last 2 years are so cute.

hold on matt, lemme collect all the data and show that players are taller, heavier, and have higher verts. be back in a few days.

WTF?

I don't really think "evidence" is needed. Players are bigger and more athletic now. In 20 years they will most likely be bigger and more athletic than they are now.

What kind of evidence would you like? Just look at the size of the players playing the different positions, that would be a good start.

I like that people really think that Jordan wouldn't have left Chicago if they failed to get talent around him like Cleveland did with Lebron

Jordan is 10x the egomaniac that Lebron is, he would do the decision in heartbeat if it made 1MM, he would keep the money from it, and blow it at the casino that night

These discussions are going to get more and more furious in the debate after LeBron collects a few more rings and the years go by.

I think the athleticism has increased but not the skill. someone's gonna argue "the euros," I'd counter expansion. there aren't 10 teams in the league that play good team ball. pick-and-pop, drive-and-kick or just "move out of the way" so whoever can go 1-on-how-ever-many play way too prominent a role in today's "offenses." granted the lol rules about fouls and contact make those tactics more viable, but still.

Who are you and why are you such an awful poster?

Where is your evidence against? You have yet to post any coherant argument with proof yet to prove you wrong with we need to have a 50 page thesis paper.

OK! Since it's simple evolution here's some really easy questions for you:

What is the selective pressure that has acted so significantly over less than 1 full generation to cause such a drastic increase in the allele frequencies which lead to "superior athleticism".

Also, why is this selective pressure so great that it's altered the physical composition of elite athletes so much that we can barely compare the players now to the players of the 80's? Seriously, what the heck happened? Is there a eugenics program I'm not aware of?

No, I'm going to argue they are approximately equal. It's probably more significant in the NFL between 2 decades though because of the massive obvious difference in drug use and the advances in pharmacology that happen in 20 years. But yeah, still relatively close, and it's a lot closer in basketball.

Oh, so you don't have a single shred of evidence either?

I haven't even considered this but yeah, a lot of players and coaches do argue general fundamentals were quite a bit better ~20 years ago.

Think about what happens to the average talent level per team when you go from 23 teams to 30 teams.

Stop acting like I'm saying players are LESS athletic now. This goalpost shifting that continues from the other thread is really tiring.

What? How the heck do you figure "globalization" has negated a 30%+ dilution of talent due to expansion? And so much so that it's "obvious" players are waaay more athletic now?? The NBA was huge in the 80's/90's, it's not like elite athletes were turning down multi-million dollar contracts to go run track in the 90's.

Nice. It's "different". That means nothing and you have no evidence whatsoever.

Yeah, the average height of NBA players has GONE DOWN. That should tell you guys something about your "evolution in 20 years" theory. We have no comparable centers in the league today, which funnily enough, elite, big, athletic centers who are great defenders would be exactly the type of player that could really slow down LeBron.

No no. You see, the players are actually shorter and only weigh a little over 6 pounds more. You won't be able to provide any evidence for your position because you're completely wrong.

May want to look at wikipedia. The internets is a wonderful invention. Cute try at sarcasm though.

So you went from a pool of around 250 million people in the US to 3+ billion in Europe, South America and Asia. That's a huge increase in player pool vs a 30% increase in the # of players. I honestly can't believe you are serious on some of your points.

Of course my stuff is heresay, much like yours is. Where is your proof? Why are your eyes better than ours?

I understand that around these parts when I challenge bad p0sters deeply seated beliefs about sort by birthyear measure athleticism and humanity's huge evolutionary leaps in 20 years you guys get really, rilly mad. But seriously, I'm not asking for a 50 page thesis. I'm asking for ONE SINGLE COHERENT ARGUMENT OR ONE SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE. Do you understand the difference?

Do you really think people are getting shorter or that the ideal players are not 7 foot+ guys without any talent ala Thabeet or Shawn Bradley? Most of the guys today are huge and fit. Doesn't mean they weigh more.

6 lbs is a lot. thanks for doing the work.

Holy crap. I posted evidence. Good job on ignoring it. It really perturbs you guys around here when you're shown to be wrong doesn't it? Time to spam my name in the bad posters thread right?

Quick! How many internationals are on the all-NBA team now compared to 20 years ago? Do you think elite top-tier basketball talent 20 years ago had never heard of the NBA? Think before you answer please.