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Old 11-03-2009, 06:37 AM   #76
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

I really like this list because game-breaking effectiveness is placed above mere form or longevity, which imo is only an indicator that everything outside of your footbaling ability is stable.
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:02 AM   #77
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

uistbhoy, yeah, my last sentance apologises for the mistake. I thought some retard put the list together recently. Sorry. Even so though, 2 years ago that list is a bit sketchy, wasnt Neville injured for about 2 years around that time.
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:04 AM   #78
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

That list is ridiculous and Bjorn only included it for the intro
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:36 AM   #79
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

I dont think you can list a top 200 players IMO. I think you look at a top 10 list for the elite. You could probably make a top 50 if you can sit and debate about different skill sets etc for a whole week but after 50 you have to say most players are on a similar playing field to each other. You could probably make a top 50 defenders list, a top 50 strikers list etc etc but not a general top 200 list.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:00 AM   #80
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

Even a top 10 list is impossible, but this should get some discussion going.

I think I'd prefer a couple of different lists (best GK, best D,M,A) but even if you would make a list of the 50 best defenders how would you compare Daniel Alves to, say, John Terry? And when it comes to midfielders you can't really compare Mascherano to someone like Sneijder. Well, OK, make lists for every single position, you say. But then you have to label every player whereas a lot of them can play multiple positions. And even when it comes to the exact same positions on paper, different things are asked from a player depending on the various tactical systems. You have to consider all these different things when making just 1 list and you can debate endlessly.

TL;DR: I'm surprised Bjorn hasn't gone mad.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:02 AM   #81
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

any chilean players in the list?
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:17 AM   #82
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

Yup!
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:20 AM   #83
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

where's Craig Forrest?
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:21 AM   #84
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

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Originally Posted by Iplayboard View Post
Nice job Bjorn, but you really shouldn't have included that awful top 50 list as some people seem to mistake it as current or even as your own.
Yeah it's a bit confusing unless you actually read the whole post (which I suppose is a bit much to ask).

Would definitely not mind if the link itself got removed.

Also wish there was some way the list could go into the OP (but that also seem like a bit too much to ask).

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TL;DR: I'm surprised Bjorn hasn't gone mad.
Don't rule that out.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:43 AM   #85
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

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I'm with you. I thought it was odd, so I went back and checked the criteria, and Bjorn said it was based on current form. Walcott has played 2 games this season, and has been a spot player his entire career. I know he's only 20, but I don't see how he's a top-200 on current, or past form.

I don't think it'd be too difficult to find a couple players from that shortlist to replace them, guys who are actual contributing first-teamers.
Yeah, pretty much...
That is true. In some criteria they're behind I don't even know how many players.
But I wouldn't say the main criteria is perceived form at the moment, more like perceived ability at the moment. Even if that ability in Ramsey's extraordinary case IS NOT, because of what I argue are some special circumstances, YET put to use at the highest level. Thank you Fabregas...

With Walcott, like I said he is so elite in that very difference making area that is speed, that I felt it would be a mistake to leave him off.

That he has hardly played this season haven't quite hurt him like some other players who just missed out. Some of those have barely played in seasons others are so old you wonder if they can indeed come back at high level, while Walcott though somewhat injury prone has 30+ games the last three years, where I also think he has shown at least a bit more than you imply.
If you're going to the World Cup at 17 for this strong a nation you've definitely shown something special.

With all that said both Walcott and Ramsey are actually the lowest ranked players of their type. Especially the "Walcott type" will show up plenty. With Ramsey like I say in the write up there are other things in play. SO I'm not claiming them world beaters just yet, I just perceive their particular abilities to be very special/valuable.

Last edited by Bjørn; 11-03-2009 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:45 AM   #86
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

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arsenal yo, arsenal
What has Björn to do with Arsenal?
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:47 AM   #87
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

IDK how you can meaningfully compile such a list without it being more an expose of your viewing habits, since in football the stats field and sabermetrics is very weak since it is an incredibly dynamic game at the top level.

ps., Busquets has been terrible this season and Messi not so good either. Ibra, Keita, Xavi and Puyol are the team's top performers to date.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:50 AM   #88
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

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We don't have a lot of info on this like in American sports with a salary cap but I would expect solid but not spectacular center backs to be great value.
Definitely agree and great point. Of course generally defenders aren't as well paid (with some high profile exceptions) but I wonder how many teams wouldn't benefit eventually if they made something like that part of their plan.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:03 AM   #89
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

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Originally Posted by Zeestein View Post
IDK how you can meaningfully compile such a list without it being more an expose of your viewing habits, since in football the stats field and sabermetrics is very weak since it is an incredibly dynamic game at the top level.

ps., Busquets has been terrible this season and Messi not so good either. Ibra, Keita, Xavi and Puyol are the team's top performers to date.
Yeah all true but trying to figure it out, or even speculating, can be a lot of fun!
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:12 AM   #90
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

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any americans in the top 200? im guessing no as i dont see any on the bubble either.
That bubble post is a bit misleading. I basically started by listing every good player I could think of (the draft we did helped there) and put them in order one by one. Unfortunately I've realized that quite a few I simply erased once they dropped out of what I finally decided was the cutoff at 200.
So they're not even in that bubble post.

But wrote this earlier:

Quote:
There were some players who really did impress me during the Confederations Cup but realistically with all the talent they're up against (like you said, just look at that bubble) probably the only one who would have had a chance, who really appears to have some great upside, would be Jozy Altidore, if he, like some other young great talent has this season, still to come on the list, exploded and had been really impressive for his club team. Unfortunately he hasn't really been getting the chance even, to do that.
And in before neither has Ramsey! Hopefully his write up makes clear why I think, rightly or wrongly, that he is a (very) special case.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:28 AM   #91
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

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What has Björn to do with Arsenal?
nothing but arsenal players are generally overrated
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:41 AM   #92
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

Good thing then, that of the top of my head there are about 10 United players ranked ahead of both those two!

But some Arsenal players too of course...
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:42 AM   #93
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

Björn I hope you have included some more Bundesliga DM because I don't think Tymo is the best
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:46 AM   #94
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

Yes there are more.

Tymo is the write up I'm most uncomfortable with. I'm touching on something where I could be way off. Heck his ranking could be way off. I had just dropped him 30+ places too. So maybe therefore I'm a little too vague. Hopefully it's not completely off and he has in fact been disappointing maybe even somewhat exposed.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:50 AM   #95
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

I was always thought highly of Tymo, disappointing to see he hasn't made a good impression with Bayern so far.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:51 AM   #96
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

He certainly hasn't met the high expectations
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:10 PM   #97
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

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nothing but arsenal players are generally overrated
LMAO Giggs PFA player of the year, gtfo. Plus him bubbled several Arsenal players, guys that play more than those two.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:18 PM   #98
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

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LMAO Giggs PFA player of the year, gtfo. Plus him bubbled several Arsenal players, guys that play more than those two.
Giggs is a legend. He's been producing it at the highest level in the EPL and in Europe for almost 20 years. I don't see how anyone can begrudge him a token player of the year award. Remember also that it was awarded by the PFA - i.e. players themselves, not fans, not pundits.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:20 PM   #99
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

I don't begrudge him the award, but as you said, it was a token gesture, he didn't deserve it (IE he's overrated).

More to the point, I don't think Bjorn is overrating Arsenal players since he bubbled a huge group of them. His inclusions of Walcott and Ramsey are very interesting and based on his reasoning, I think its warranted. Ramsey would easily be starting at a lot of Premiership clubs right now.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:24 PM   #100
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Re: The 200 best soccer players in the world

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I don't begrudge him the award, but as you said, it was a token gesture, he didn't deserve it (IE he's overrated).

More to the point, I don't think Bjorn is overrating Arsenal players since he bubbled a huge group of them. His inclusions of Walcott and Ramsey are very interesting and based on his reasoning, I think its warranted. Ramsey would easily be starting at a lot of Premiership clubs right now.
difference is he's 'overrated' at the end of his career when he's won it all and proved himself

not when he's played a couple of league cup games
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