As a defender myself I certainly appreciate the art. However you are very wrong that everyone thinks Nesta clearly > Maldini or even Cannavaro. Certainly we are arguing minutia given all 3 would be in pretty much everyones top 10 list of the last 25 years.

Agree on Baresi though. The man was a genius.

Well it's close and yeah they're all great.

I've already called Nesta the best central defender I've seen and probably the best at defending.

Maldini I would say was the best player of the three as well as the greatest overall player though Baresi have a case there I suppose.

With Baresi I'm less confident in my judgment cause I was pretty young but combining memory and since then acquired knowledge I would say he was the greatest central defender of the three.
He was Sacchi's leader on the pitch and controlled the defense to perfection. Opponents just didn't have an answer to the combination of Milan's high midfield pressure and Baresi behind pushing the defense up making space even narrower plus directing the offside trap to perfection.
That's probably my clearest memory of the Milan defense from back then, opponents getting caught offside time and time again.
Athletically I don't remember him being on the same level as the other two at their peak but I still remember him as a mistake free marker who was also agile.

Maldini would be the best player on my list for his greatness at left-back. It's easy to forget now but while he still had pace he was a force going forward as well as a nearly unbeatable defender. He was a great athlete in almost every way imaginable and skilled technically.

Cannavaro I would put a close second behind Nesta when it comes to pure defending but of course he did it for much longer and has no doubt had the greater career.

Then when you compare that career to Maldini and Baresi it becomes really interesting. He does have that World Cup triumph weighing heavily in his favor but all in all even though he was mistake free (so was the much more ordinary Materazzi almost and so would Nesta have been if it wasn't for his injury) and played great I don't quite put him on the pedestal that some do for his part in that triumph. I now see it much more as a team effort and if I was to name one player as the most important it would be Andrea Pirlo who meant so much tactically.

Soooo:

Overall greatness:

1. Maldini
2. Baresi
3. Cannavaro
4. Nesta

Overall defensive greatness:

1. Maldini/Baresi
2. Cannavaro
3. Nesta

Overall greatest central defender:

1. Baresi
2. Cannavaro
3. Nesta
4. Maldini

Best overall player at their best (so close between 2,3,4):

1. Maldini
2. Baresi
3. Nesta
4. Cannavaro

Best pure defender at their peak:

1. Nesta
2. Maldini
3. Cannavaro
4. Baresi

As far as the list goes I have done write ups on a few placings. One spot is shared by three guys! But would like to add one or two more in the next update.

After the football tonight I guess.

I don't see the WC triumph being much of a plus since Baresi/Maldini where in a team only beaten in the final on penalties....

Good write up indeed. I see you agree that it is certainly not as clear cut as Zeestein makes up.

Also interesting that so many Italians (or perhaps, not so interesting!) are clearly in the running for best defender of my lifetime. Probably only the Germans would come close!

whats a soccer?

Nah. I love Ronaldinho and all but no way in hell does any player top Ronaldo in that season. CR's 07/08 comes close second but I just really like his style, so I'm biased.

I don't get why Paolo Maldini is a sacred cow, as a Milan fan I'm not being unfair when I say he was really not good enough from 36 onwards, and he played 5 more seasons after that and progressive got worse each season.

He's the cleanest and quickest tackle I've ever seen, he just doesn't do that perfect anticipation thing where the strikers gets 2 touches all game and is mentally owned that Baresi and Nesta does.

I'm taking big minuses from both Paolo and Cannavaro because of their worst seasons were pretty damn bad.

Dude Maldini played until he was over 40 at the very top level and you are taking points away because the performances at that age weren't quite up to your outrageously high standards?

No, Maldini was plain not good as he lost his athleticism. In the 06/07 season Milan (won CL) finished a long way behind Inter and a lot was to do with the bad defence. The difference from his 03/04 CL winning year playing with Nesta was huge, Maldini defended super deep and pretty much retreated as soon as the striker had the ball at his feet because he would be burnt for pace and this made for huge gaps in midfield, especially if Pirlo is your DM. He got worse in the 2 years after as well, I don't know why he wanted to play on since it meant the club didn't buy any young CBs. It's not a coincidence that Milan is now fielding a far more attacking formation with Thiago Silva and Nesta at the back when Carlo insisted on 3 DMs in his last year.

He was immaculate for a long time, and then he became slightly above average and then below average and finally just had too many weaknesses.

So if Zidane came out of retirement now and stumbled around the field until he was 47 in the Qatar Stars League that would take away from his greatness?

I mean, to some extent I get your point, but I think someone hanging around playing on top teams even late in their career is a point in their favor not a point against them. It goes without saying though, that they won't be the same as they were at their peak.

I suppose it does matter if you are arguing "greatness" by measuring entire careers as opposed to peaks or "primes" (and hell, why not? Bjorn already ranked them 5 or 6 different ways as it is!), but that's not exactly fair if one person retires "on top" and another stays in the game as long as possible. For example, according to Wikipedia, Baresi retired at 37 while Maldini retired at 40.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOb4T1oxg5E

Legend status revoked.

no, because no one expects anything other than unmotivated has-beens to play in Qatar whereas ya know, being a starter for like the 87000 capacity stadium, 7 time UCL winners AC Milan carries different expectations.

I think your taking points away from Maldini due to the tail end of his career considering he started for a top European club until he was over 40 years old is really rather weak. But to each his own!

Oh no, Maldini's had pretty much the most amazing career of just about anyone. He's won on his career more CLs than Inter + Juve combined and was part of 2 dynasty type teams (Sacchi, 02/03 Manchester CL till 06/07 Athens CL under Carlo), he just was never as good at defending as Nesta.

Time for another update that despite being 151 to 148 still include 7 players. Some of them could be argued are reaches.

And in light of that there is also some musing on the inevitable clear mistakes so far. I might as well post that here as well:

The 200-150 rankings saw so many changes and running adjustment that looking at it now some of the order almost hurts my eyes...

To take it from the start, Sergio Ramos and Sergio Busquets are the first couple of players I did injustice.

Ramos and the various reasons for and against I already discussed at length in his write up but the combination of perhaps exaggerating against a little bit too much and simply comparing him to later entries, means I think, that he absolutely should be higher. Maybe even somewhere in this entry ranked say 148.

Busquets despite the occasional flashback to still not belonging at Barca level this season has such a good passing game and is decent enough defensively that he should also be higher. I would say around the 140 mark where we will see some players that he is comparable with.

Some of the central defenders also seem a little low but at least when it comes to those I don't really mind their internal order.

The most noteworthy jump any player would make though would be Marouane Fellaini.



Unfortunately right now he is injured which could hurt his ranking a little bit but before that he was so excellent that I would have him probably flirting with top 50 or 40.

Thankfully I don't see anyone else where I feel like I've made that big of a mistake but there are of course other players that I would like to move down some or up some.

Walcott, Wright Phillips, Lavezzi and Barnetta are too high. In Walcott's case I regret him making the list, even if my write up at least is pretty precise and to the point.
There are just too many flaws. In some ways he only ended up ranked cause I suddenly felt that I couldn't include the now sadly injured Aaron Ramsey and not the more proven Walcott, but then again I did do right and rank him behind Ramsey thankfully, so I should just have taken the full consequence of the holes in his arsenal and left him out entirely.

Srna is another one who should be a little higher. Pedro and Zhirkov quite a bit higher. Zhirkov around this entry and Pedro probably all the way up to the 120s where there are some comparable players.
At least with these two I have the excuse of them at the time of list-making either just not playing enough or uncertainty, in Pedro's case, if he was really good enough to continue to play. Quite a bit of that uncertainty is now gone therefore Pedro especially should be higher.

Anyway the list so far:

Following some scrolling, all writeups HERE

Newest entries:

151: Sebastian Giovinco and Luca Cigarini - Napoli and Juventus - Italy

150: Taye Taiwo, Rod Fanni and Benoit Tremoulinas - Marseille, Rennes and Bordeaux - Nigeria and France

149: Domenico Criscito - Genoa - Italy
148: Fernando Llorente - Atletico Bilbao - Spain

There will be a 2 or 3 more shared spots until the top 100 where there aren't any.

I think generally from now there is a gap in class from what's been on the list so far (excluding those who should be higher) and generally just fewer question marks and uncertainties concerning the players.

There will still be some veterans who aren't what they used to be. But what they used to be were among the very best in the world. And there will be some young players just breaking through who will still have things to prove but they're all showing such good stuff that they have not only elite potential but perhaps should be ranked even higher. Quite a few of those very soon on the list.

But mostly it's just one very good player after another.
Even number 147 unless I decide to move him up a little further is top 5 at his defensive position and as good defensively as probably anyone playing that position.

Hey it's time for another update. Perhaps even more boring than the last one but if you like Argentinian playmakers maybe just maybe there will be something of interest.

I actually ended up taking way too much time on that Argentinian playmaker special that's the 148th spot, so on the other writeups I attempted the shorter precise route instead. So if you really wanted deep thoughts on Gerard Pique (not saying I have any btw) I'm sorry.

But some surprising entries in this one I guess. Quite a few people who weren't on originally either and there will be more of those if I compare to the original version.

Also some thoughts about Messi and Maradona's Argentina generally, hidden in that 5 player writeup.

Then there is Huddlestone who I really have no clue about how people rate but in some ways I guess he is a first taste of quite a few young players who I think are excellent, but perhaps isn't yet considered as such by the whole wide world, to come on the list. Some ranked very high. To some extent the same is the case with Sanchez. He has actually seen quite a tumble in the rankings where I had him higher originally.

And:
Here is the list so far:

Following some scrolling, all writeups HERE

Newest entries:

147: Juan Roman Riquelme, Juan Sebastian Veron, Lucho Gonzalez, Pablo Aimar and Javier Pastore
146: Alexis Sanchez - Udinese - Chile
145: Tom Huddlestone - Tottenham - England
144: Gerard Pique - Barcelona - Spain

Hopefully another update later today. Time to get busy!

Jordan's Baby at 145 is a very interesting choice. I think he's a good player but I'm surprised to see him on the list.

I actually suspect Rodwell who I remember you brought up way back in this thread (but who I hadn't seen much of at that point) is even better but he just hasn't played enough yet.

Huddlestone with his play at least has been important contributor to Spurs impressive season.

And quite a few more Spurs players to come of course.

I don't really think he is better than the players I mentioned mistakenly having ranked too low in the last entry but against everyone else I think he has as good a case as you can have with the small differences in the lower ranked territory.

Pique's an interesting one. Almost unbeatable aerially (at least in Liga) and a brilliant passer (better than Rio imo) but has the turning arc and acceleration of a mid-sized liner.

I think when he played with Chygrynskiy Barca really struggled because Puyol wasn't there to cover his mistakes.

He has a great temperament though and does the job in big games but over the course of a season I still believe Puyol has made him look better than he is (as he should ofc).

Puyol is a player who makes more defensive mistakes than his reputation suggests. His last ditch tackles cover many of his flaws. Pique should be ranked higher.

I do think it's possible that Pique at this point is a better central defender. It's hard to say. But I also think Demon has a point in that Puyol's better quickness is needed when sometimes the only chances Barca do give away are those that maybe require the last effort tackles.
Now if as you say Puyol often has to make those because of own personal mistakes then of course he shouldn't be given much credit, but I also think often it's the very attacking balance of the team causing situations like that. Situations still remarkable few with how attacking Barca is.

Then there is another thing with Puyol and a few others (sometimes maybe unfairly since it's a tough call every time) where at times they have received sort of an "overall player bonus/boost" if able to do well at more than one position and sometimes that's been the difference maker in close spots.

Agree with what you wrote about Alexis Sanchez, I think I would add that he needs to work on scoring goals but he is still young

Puyol's peak coincided with his best physical condition, dude was the Messi of defenders during the bad dark horrible Gaspart days, except there was only him. He's old and lost some stamina and pace due to his knees but he's still great. He's an immortal lock to be regarded as Barcelona's best ever defender, though he's probably not a top 20 CB anymore on an individual basis he overcomes that with experience and familiarity with the Pepball system.

When in the hell is this thread going to get to players ranked 1-50?

SWP ranked much much too high imo.

I cant think what he has done to deserve such a high placing, unless unfulfilled potential counts for more than an actual history of consistently having an effect on the game. His consistency and decision making are horrible. Could be a great player, but has the footballing brain of ******ed ant.