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The 300 best soccer players in the world The 300 best soccer players in the world

02-20-2012 , 04:14 PM
Thanks for the good intentions everyone. I'll definitely start in some capacity within the next hours (might do a note on some of the close calls first though).


Quote:
Originally Posted by stakman1011
In and excited. Have really enjoyed your lists in the past, both reading and contributing. I'm looking forward to this one as well, and will try to contribute as much as I can/ help in any way possible. Unfortunately, I'm only really an "expert" on the USA players, and the stuff I watch the most is CL/EPL/La Liga/Serie A so there's probably a lot of overlap with what everyone else watches and is familiar with.

I'm interested too in how the game is changing and how that affects or doesn't affect your rankings. It seems to me that two-way play is way more important than it ever was. As many pundits have noted, the poacher is dead, the Riquelme style playmaker is (almost completely) dead, and the next players to go, are the destroyer CMs and the big bruising center backs.

It seems there is more emphasis on the ability to do everything. Managers seem much more interested in CBs ability to pick a pass than they ever were. Many followers of the MLS were surprised when Tim Ream was signed by Bolton for example. Ream's had his struggles defensively for sure, but is a very good user of the ball for a CB. 10 years ago would a relegation struggler ever have gone after a player like Ream? I don't think so.

Another example: two of the best pure destroyers/DCMs in the game aren't even starting regularly for their (admittedly elite) clubs. De Jong is having a hard time getting a look in when City is full strength against players such as the oft-maligned Barry, who while not nearly the ball-winner/bulldog that De Jong is, is a more reliable passer. Mascherano, for me maybe the best destroyer there is, doesn't seem preferred over the excellent distribution of Busquets. In fact, Mascherano seems to be more of a center back now. While Pep prizes passing more than perhaps anyone else, I still think it's indicative of a trend.

At any rate, here I go rambling on again about nothing in particular. I guess the cliffs notes version of my tl;dr post is that I think the way managers rate players is changing dramatically and I'm interested to see the extent to which you agree (or disagree) and how that changes (or doesn't) your rankings.

Put another way: are "specialists" as valuable as we once thought? More? Less?
Yup defensive players and especially centreback's abilities with the ball will definitely be a theme through out. Not that it's really something new. At least since the libero died some time in the early 90s, though they tried to keep him alive in Germany, (so the centrebacks didn't have that guy to bring the ball forward anymore) and the pass back to the goalkeeper rule was abolished, centrebacks have become better and better technically and there have been many very good ones in the last 17-18 years or so.

However with the way team-defending is done now, and the Zonal-marking guy had a nice description of it in an article I saw today: "Teams can push up high and pressurise their opponents, or they can drop very deep, allow the opposition time on the ball in deep positions, but concentrate on remaining tight in their own third. This is the principal tactical debate in modern football ", and I'll just add that, a lot of the time I guess, it's really a mixture weighed towards one or the other, I'd like to reward centrebacks who can thrive at both and then to add to that I'm becoming more and more aware of what the defenders do, affect the attacking play, either directly by succeeding or failing their role with the ball or indirectly when their characteristics either require or rule out certain tactics.

For an example, broadly speaking with some defenders you just can't play a high line or quality possession (in the organized pressing environment - see below) and with others you'll be at too much risk if depending on them defending close to their own penalty area throughout a game.

While centrebacks with footballing ability isn't really new then, pressing, while not exactly new either, have definitely seen important developments made with system's like Barca or Dortmund pressing high up the pitch with wave after wave of players extremely organized in mostly 4-3-3 systems compared to (what I guess Sacchi started at Milan) 4-4-2's pushing up as a unit, pressing, limiting space at opportune times, at opportune places trying to win the ball and play direct, but not as high as you see, more and more, good teams go for these days and perhaps most importantly, not as consistently or intense, immediately following loss of possession.

So I guess, what is new, is how that affects every position, and yeah all in all, it's probably centrebacks who are getting depended on (at least at the high level) in most new ways, so to speak.

The poacher dead?

Hmmm not long ago I would have agreed and yes someone walking around a lot when not attacking, then taking position in the box won't cut it, but there are definitely some strikers now who really aren't that good outside the final third, including their technique but who has great fast sharp movements without the ball, the ability to consistently perform these 10 meter (or whatever) high intensity sprints over the course of a game, and that way create space both for themselves and others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Kool Aid
How do you go about ranking players who are injured? David Villa and Rossi are two players who come to mind.

Also, I hope you are now convinced that Dempsey is a top 300 guy! Don't really think any Americans outside of him and Donovan deserve to be on the list still.
I have to say I'm more of a Donovan-guy, especially now that he is back in England reminding (fwiw) me that he is a good player. I'm still not really that big a fan of Dempsey, not even when he is scoring goals, but yeah let's just say he has done enough to make the potential question of "how many American players" on the list?" very uninteresting.

Last edited by Bjørn; 02-20-2012 at 04:21 PM.
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02-20-2012 , 04:35 PM
Yeah, an interesting thought about center backs' effectiveness being so dependent on the system played nowadays (as seen most obviously with Chelsea's CBs this year finding it so difficult to play how AVB wants them to).

So CBs ability to play a high line or a low block (or both or neither or what have you) is more highlighted. The other really important aspect of all this is with the ball. While we don't have too many (seems like more and more at times though) of the old school sweepers bringing the ball out of defense regularly, CBs ability to pass is so important now.

When possession is won back, the CB's ability to "break the press" not unlike a point guard in basketball is so valuable. Often it's that first pass, Brazilians call it the "saida" phase, where counterattacks begin or end and games are won or lost. When teams were standing off deeper, CB passing could be a little less precise to less detriment.

Then the other factor, which is almost exactly the opposite of what I just said, is the increasing prevalence of 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 systems where the attacking wide players in the defensive phase are meant to neutralize the attacking fullbacks. Where teams sit deep, the old idea of FBs with space in front of them when 4-4-2s played 4-4-2s, is much rare now. Not to say it's gone of course, but the traditional way of breaking down a low block 4-4-2 involving FBs staying tight to the touchline, expanding the playing area, and getting crosses in, is less effective. Now with only a central striker in the CB zone and the attacking FB with a more direct opponent, a team needs more incisive passing from the CBs.

So it'll definitely be interesting to see where you go with the newer CB ranking...
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02-20-2012 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopSueyyy
Yay!

FYI I'll be extremely disappointed if Roman Eremenko wont make the list.


So few posts in and already a player I didn't even consider (and my list is bigger than ever!). Not seen enough of him either to be sure one way or the other. I even tried really hard to find worthy non-Brazilians in Ukranian football but then of course he has changed to Kazan, who unlike some other Russian clubs, I kind of ignored cuz they haven't been doing so well recently.

Is he kind of a playmaker?
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02-20-2012 , 04:48 PM
Pretty excited for this. Haven't been able to follow football much since I've had a bad travel schedule for work and I've been busy with other things. Look forward to seeing how things have changed.
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02-20-2012 , 04:56 PM
I've just had a look at the list.

Ronaldo will regain #2 for me. I disagreed that Xavi was #2 last time round and so did many others, while your arguments and a few others where valid as well. The pure raw power, pace, ability and goals he scores is enough for him to be above Xavi imo

Last time round Robben, Eto'o and Tevez all made the elite top 10 list. I expect the three of them to drop out with the latter two making a major jump. I've not seen anything of Eto'o since his move and doubt many others have as well. Tevez simply hasn't been playing football so has to drop.

To replace those three David Silva, Modric and possible Aguero. Quite ironic that those 3 aren't playing in the latter stages of the champions league.

I guess it goes to show that you having Modric at #15 and Sneijder at #16 last time round turned out to be a good choice over the long haul.

I'm expecting a few older guys to drop right down players like Drogba, Cambiasso Lampard, Gerrard and Berbatov to slump quite low and Torres to not even feature in it.

Cavani and van Persi to break the top 20 as well. The latter possible in the 10 over Aguero.

Defenders as well Silva, Vidic etc should be up higher than previously ranked.
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02-20-2012 , 05:00 PM
I didn't follow last time but will this time round.
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02-20-2012 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaredL
Pretty excited for this. Haven't been able to follow football much since I've had a bad travel schedule for work and I've been busy with other things. Look forward to seeing how things have changed.
wow blast from the past! that is excellent and really for me very good motivation alone to do this list.
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02-20-2012 , 05:09 PM
This will be good.
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02-20-2012 , 05:59 PM
OT but why does the iphone change possibly to possible. Took me two goes to correct that.
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02-20-2012 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
This will be good.
I hope so!

First bunch:

300 (new)

Julian Draxler - Germany - Schalke 04

Attacking midfielder/Winger


Spoiler:


Another German wunderkind who has been on everyone's radar for quite a while already at just 18.

I've been thinking he was just about to explode all over the league a number of times already, but while that hasn't quite happened yet, one reason is Schalke's big squad with a lot players with certain perspective where you can't just bench everyone permanently, but I do think the team is clearly better when he is on the pitch. That alone is no small feat.

He has strong one on one qualities. To such an extent that he has overtaken even Jefferson Farfan (who is in a strange season to be fair) as Schalke's main dribbling protagonist.

Then there is his tall lanky frame which might the best thing about him of all. There is just no way he should not grow really really strong (which along with all the skill should make him a real force) and a minion like Lewis Holtby (his teammate) must be feeling jealous.

299

2010/2011 MID-SEASON RANKING: not ranked

END of 2010/11 - START of 2011/12 Ranking: 286

Marcel Schmelzer - Germany - Dortmund

Left-back


He drops a little for no reason in particular, other than maybe make room for his, currently a little bit stronger team mate, on the other side, Piszczek (but I would be interested in what the popular view is among Dortmund fans).

Schmelzer is just a very polished attacking full-back to such an extent that I actually think he might be a safer bet to the better one long term. He does attacking-full back things well with great consistency, with no let downs ever in technique and certainly not stamina where his lungs carry him forward forever.

298: (new)

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain - England - Arsenal

Winger




Like some other (to various extents) sensations before him, tough to rank with only a few games at high level below his belt.

Had I seen him in the Championship (a good league in its own right) I would probably catapult him higher.

Let me say immediately though, that there have been quite the cleanup when it comes to attacking (including wingers) English players and Oxlade-Chamberlain is already one of the highest ranked.

My first impression of him was a mini winger-version of the young Everton Rooney. Years go by between such comparisons. It's pretty unique. The Ox is quite simply build like a small truck and have enough power and pace to be a real impact player in years to come.

When you then add, that he has already shown his arsenal to consist of more football intelligence and varied skill repertoire, than many other UK wingers do in a lifetime, then you realize that here is a very special talent.

Last edited by Bjørn; 02-20-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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02-20-2012 , 06:17 PM
Never heard of the guy from Schalke, Schelmzer seems a good shout for the fringe of this almost solely down to the fact he looks like a drummer for an 80's hair metal band.

Like seeing Ox on this already as well. In addition to what you said, he has the confidence to attack people with the ball and when he loses it to not let it get him down. Still needs to work on his all around game, and his decision making, but he has been one of the few breaths of fresh air in an otherwise **** season for Arsenal.
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02-20-2012 , 06:28 PM
297 (new)


Juan Arango - Venezuela - Borussia Mönchengladbach

Winger




A bit of a wild cad here who I'm not really sure belongs, just like I'm not really sure it's a good idea if Gladbach indeed did extend his contract at age 31 with 3, or was it 4 more, years...

Without Gladbach's great success this season I wouldn't have ranked him and beside their obvious star who is to come much later on the list, the real star if anything is the team and coach Favre who has done a great job.

But I wanted to include another player of their's and beside Reus, I think it's Arango's magnificent left-leg and dynamic play that's made the most impact, while others I've noticed like for an example Hermann, more have with much fewer touches done a great job of taken advantage of how incredibly well this team functions + all the consistent individual Reus brilliance and then the often inspired wing play from Arango.

When I found out, something I had completely forgotten, that it was actually Arango who also captained Venezuela on the way to their Copa America semi-final run, my mind was made up about including him on the list.

Last edited by Bjørn; 02-20-2012 at 06:38 PM.
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02-20-2012 , 06:44 PM
When can we expect to see Steve Morison?
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02-20-2012 , 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjørn
Is he kind of a playmaker?
yup deep-lying playmaker like modders
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02-20-2012 , 06:58 PM
296: (new)

Nolito - Spain - Benfica

Attacker




Speaking of wild cards here is another but in a limited sample size I'm enough of fan to include him with real hopes of a higher ranking next time, over making me look silly and being a no hoper.

I'm interested in his background. He has no Spain youth caps, but at a relative late age suddenly started bagging the goals for Barcelona-B, enough to even earn a few sub appearances for the mighty first team, then joined Benfica, and imo is a guy who since then looks like he is consistently a danger to score. Not a bad thing.

Not an automatic starter on a team with a lot of attacking talent, but actually has more minutes in the league than the likes of Rodrigo, Bruno Cesar and Aimar and Gaitan as well (though of course rest plays in). Then in his champions league appearances I also thought he was good and showed he belonged.

A bit Soldado-like in his attacking play/looking to score but enough all round skill to also function as winger and provide attacking midfield play.
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02-20-2012 , 07:16 PM


295:

2010/2011 MID-SEASON RANKING: 249
End of 2010/11 - Beginning of 2011/12 Ranking: 264

Deco - Portugal - Fluminense

Attacking midfielder


It would be easy to push Deco off the list at this point and no one would raise an eyebrow, but he is just hanging on (is it the likely added weight?) and makes the list, likely for the last time, but who knows?

I think he got his return to Fluminense mostly ruined by injuries but from what I understand when playing since that bad start, definitely a standout when it comes to skill. But if someone has a different more well informed story, please don't hold it back.

But all in all him still being kind of good echoes well with my last Deco experiences in 2010 for Portugal where he was still very Deco- like conducting smoothly with nice ball control, passing and movement everywhere in the final third. I have a feeling the movement part of his game is down, but if he really can be a stand out in a league that likely is getting stronger (with many Brazil borderline and not so borderline stars either returning home or staying longer) while getting richer, then I do think he has a case to remain on the list.

Last edited by Bjørn; 02-20-2012 at 07:25 PM.
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02-20-2012 , 07:50 PM
Spoiler:


294 (new)

Maxime Gonalons - France - Lyon

Central midfielder


I definitely tried to avoid getting more Lyon players on the list when they're not even that good in Ligue 1 at the moment, Gonalons however has become a little bit too good to ignore.

Very composed and efficient in central midfield when it comes to the defensive stuff. Tactially it doesn't look he sets his feet wrong a lot and with the ball his very confident and reliable range of passing makes him stand out from so many other solid midfielders. Swinging the ball diagonal to wingers is not a problem for this particular player.
At 22 (with Toulalons gone) this is his first as a certain starter but he already looks like someone with a lot more experience than what is actually on his resume.

Maybe there is a problem when him and Källström are getting too similar(?) with what they do in central midfield, both with and without the ball, I like watching them for sure, but isn't what we're seeing almost identical impact coming from two different players, and isn't some kind of different impact being made from those positions missing then?

Well, that was just something I thought of now and to be fair Källström being the veteran does try to take responsibility and make some kind of different kind of impact, do what's missing out there to the best of his capabilities from his position, he is still enough of an all round midfielder to do so, and like with the passing, where Gonalons has truly followed in the Swede's footsteps, you can hope adding different impact and taking more responsibility is only a matter of time.
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02-20-2012 , 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaredL
Pretty excited for this. Haven't been able to follow football much since I've had a bad travel schedule for work and I've been busy with other things. Look forward to seeing how things have changed.
Quit your job imo.
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02-20-2012 , 07:53 PM
Maxime Gonalons - what a name.
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02-20-2012 , 08:08 PM
It is definitely not a bad name.

Maybe I should stop up and discuss the order sometimes? Though it can be both hard with the different positions and generally so little in it a lot of the time. Especially perhaps, at this point in the list....

But Arango ahead of Draxler (possibly the only time ever) just cuz of impact and success this season.

Chamberlain like I said is tricky, but the fact alone that it's hard to escape the notion that he would absolutely destroy the Bundesliga puts him ahead of Draxler and Arango.

Then with Deco it becomes even trickier, like hinted in his post, but a lot of skill presumably still and the decision making and passing radar to go with it, that gives him a case at least over up and comers like Ox, Nolito (though tough to compare) and Draxler.

Could Schmelzer then be ahead of them all? He does what an attacking fullback does and very well, there are so many good ones not making the list at all, and all in all I like the differencemaking more, the special impact if you will, that all the players ahead of Schmelzer are capable of in each of their different ways. He has a case though.

With Gonalons, it's just the admiration of the play of a central midfielder over other positions. Yes he is kind of a specialist too (though I do think his passing adds something on top) but like Guardiola has talked about a lot recently (and which I've also always valued on these lists) there is a lot to be appreciated about all the things good (central) midfielders influence both ways, with and without the ball, compared to other positions. They're good football players. The best even, I think Guardiola said.

Last edited by Bjørn; 02-20-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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02-20-2012 , 08:51 PM
Spoiler:


293: (new)

Yuto Nagatomo - Japan - Inter

Full/Wing back


It's hard to get impressed by anyone at current Inter but I think Nagatomo's play deserves a lot of respect.

Good enough in Asian Cup and lowly Cesena in order to make the move to a big club and I think he has been very solid in just about everything he does.

I think he would prefer to be more attacking. He is held back a little when Maicon goes on his raids on the other side and often instead of showing his own speed and skill, he is reduced to make more safe contributions.

No one at the moment will look really good defensively for Inter, the team defense doesn't work, but one on one I like him, and that's more than I can say for a lot of fullbacks, he has speed and good control both when dribbling and passing. Excellent teamwork (racist ban I know), very good decision making, and seemingly unlimited work rate.

292: (new)



Łukasz Piszczek - Poland -Dortmund


Already discussed him a little bit in the Schmelzer post.

Well, he is ahead of Nagatomo, and Schmelzer for that matter, just because I think he has made somewhat more of an impact this season.

I don't think he is as polished as the other two and will struggle to keep them behind, but as of now with his pressure game and maybe in general, a little better defensively, at least than Schmelzer (again I wouldn't mind some Dortmund opinions), and like seemingly every Dortmund player his teamwork within the setup is top notch. Tall for his position, strong and has been a force coming forward consistently for some time now.
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02-20-2012 , 09:13 PM
Thanks for doing this bjorn, really looking forward to it.
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02-20-2012 , 09:37 PM
cant read nvm. Happy you saw the blog from the score though. those guys are consistently very good on Canadian TV/podcasts.

Last edited by aoFrantic; 02-20-2012 at 09:48 PM.
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02-20-2012 , 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaSaltCracka
Never heard of the guy from Schalke, Schelmzer seems a good shout for the fringe of this almost solely down to the fact he looks like a drummer for an 80's hair metal band.

Like seeing Ox on this already as well. In addition to what you said, he has the confidence to attack people with the ball and when he loses it to not let it get him down. Still needs to work on his all around game, and his decision making, but he has been one of the few breaths of fresh air in an otherwise **** season for Arsenal.
Draxler has been linked to us as a cheaper option to Goetze and the now unavailable Reus. Have only seen Schalke like twice this year so I can't comment on him as much as gladbach/dortmund players.
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02-20-2012 , 09:52 PM
Quote:
Thanks for doing this bjorn, really looking forward to it.
Great!

A couple more before some sleep:



291: (new)

Gaston Ramirez - Uruguay - Bologna

Attacking midfielder


Awesome mask!

Started the season brilliantly but along with the team is starting to slow down a little bit.

He plays the number 10 role and it will be interesting (with all their strikers) if/when there will be room for him on his national team as a starter. Not that Uruguay, with all their success, should be strongly encouraged to change anything, but Ramirez (21 years old) definitely has the talent to become an impact player for them.

The passing-game of his playmaking is possibly still plagued by lack of experience, they don't make it easy in Serie A either to be creative, but what he does have on top of real playmaking talent (including a nice through-ball) is that one-on-one ability, which can be such a valuable difference maker in this team sport.

In fact his 2.8 successful dribbles per game (and remember this is likely central in tight space a lot of the time) is very good in Serie A and I believe in the whole league only bettered by Lavezzi, Jovetic and Biabiany.

His workrate isn't lacking either, which is good for someone in his position, but at least for now, more than solid defensive contribution, the results are sometimes too many freekicks.

Bologna managed to quickly tie him to a long-term contract and they'll be very disappointed if that eventually won't earn them a lot of money.

290: (new)

Gary Medel - Chile - Sevilla

Defensive midfielder




Medel came to Europe with a big reputation from South America where I think he was something of an icon for Boca Juniors and when playing in Chile.

He has also been very good for his national team, though when I was watching I paid more attention to more ambitious passers of the ball like Carmona, and of course Vidal whenever he was playing central.

Sevilla hasn't seen the best of times while Medel has been there. I do seem to remember some good form in the end of last season, which Medel was part of, but this season again, with a strong looking squad, they've been underachieving enormously.

Medel isn't called "Pitbull" for nothing, he is very aggressive in his defensive play and has Mascherano-like spoiler qualities when it comes disrupting opponent play.

He is more uneven with the ball though. Especially his distribution which hasn't been good/constructive enough with his many touches. I'll be surprised if there is anything wrong with his technique, he does show he can spread the play at times, and it could just be tactically where he is struggling within the team setup. Where to put the ball? Even defensively where his effort is immense otherwise, that can undo a lot.

Speculating a bit, but either yet to find his ideal role and/or struggling with a role not defined to his strengths, for an example if he is too much of a restricted holding midfielder limiting his aggressiveness (or in the worst case scenario making it a liability) and therefore not getting the best out of him, not least defensively, but possibly even when Sevilla tries to attack where he is then too much of a non-factor.

Last edited by Bjørn; 02-20-2012 at 10:05 PM.
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