Thanks for the good intentions everyone. I'll definitely start in some capacity within the next hours (might do a note on some of the close calls first though).
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Originally Posted by stakman1011
In and excited. Have really enjoyed your lists in the past, both reading and contributing. I'm looking forward to this one as well, and will try to contribute as much as I can/ help in any way possible. Unfortunately, I'm only really an "expert" on the USA players, and the stuff I watch the most is CL/EPL/La Liga/Serie A so there's probably a lot of overlap with what everyone else watches and is familiar with.
I'm interested too in how the game is changing and how that affects or doesn't affect your rankings. It seems to me that two-way play is way more important than it ever was. As many pundits have noted, the poacher is dead, the Riquelme style playmaker is (almost completely) dead, and the next players to go, are the destroyer CMs and the big bruising center backs.
It seems there is more emphasis on the ability to do everything. Managers seem much more interested in CBs ability to pick a pass than they ever were. Many followers of the MLS were surprised when Tim Ream was signed by Bolton for example. Ream's had his struggles defensively for sure, but is a very good user of the ball for a CB. 10 years ago would a relegation struggler ever have gone after a player like Ream? I don't think so.
Another example: two of the best pure destroyers/DCMs in the game aren't even starting regularly for their (admittedly elite) clubs. De Jong is having a hard time getting a look in when City is full strength against players such as the oft-maligned Barry, who while not nearly the ball-winner/bulldog that De Jong is, is a more reliable passer. Mascherano, for me maybe the best destroyer there is, doesn't seem preferred over the excellent distribution of Busquets. In fact, Mascherano seems to be more of a center back now. While Pep prizes passing more than perhaps anyone else, I still think it's indicative of a trend.
At any rate, here I go rambling on again about nothing in particular. I guess the cliffs notes version of my tl;dr post is that I think the way managers rate players is changing dramatically and I'm interested to see the extent to which you agree (or disagree) and how that changes (or doesn't) your rankings.
Put another way: are "specialists" as valuable as we once thought? More? Less?
Yup defensive players and especially centreback's abilities with the ball will definitely be a theme through out. Not that it's really something new. At least since the
libero died some time in the early 90s, though they tried to keep him alive in Germany, (so the centrebacks didn't have
that guy to bring the ball forward anymore) and the pass back to the goalkeeper rule was abolished, centrebacks have become better and better technically and there have been many very good ones in the last 17-18 years or so.
However with the way team-defending is done now, and the Zonal-marking guy had a nice description of it in an article I saw today:
"Teams can push up high and pressurise their opponents, or they can drop very deep, allow the opposition time on the ball in deep positions, but concentrate on remaining tight in their own third. This is the principal tactical debate in modern football ", and I'll just add that, a lot of the time I guess, it's really a mixture weighed towards one or the other, I'd like to reward centrebacks who can thrive at both and then to add to that I'm becoming more and more aware of what the defenders do, affect the attacking play, either directly by succeeding or failing their role with the ball or indirectly when their characteristics either require or rule out certain tactics.
For an example, broadly speaking with some defenders you just can't play a high line or quality possession (in the organized pressing environment - see below) and with others you'll be at too much risk if depending on them defending close to their own penalty area throughout a game.
While centrebacks with footballing ability isn't really new then, pressing, while not exactly new either, have definitely seen important developments made with system's like Barca or Dortmund pressing high up the pitch with wave after wave of players extremely organized in mostly 4-3-3 systems compared to (what I guess Sacchi started at Milan) 4-4-2's pushing up as a unit, pressing, limiting space at opportune times, at opportune places trying to win the ball and play direct, but not as high as you see, more and more, good teams go for these days and perhaps most importantly, not as consistently or intense,
immediately following loss of possession.
So I guess, what is new, is how that affects every position, and yeah all in all, it's probably centrebacks who are getting depended on (at least at the high level) in most
new ways, so to speak.
The poacher dead?
Hmmm not long ago I would have agreed and yes someone walking around a lot when not attacking, then taking position in the box won't cut it, but there are definitely some strikers now who really aren't that good outside the final third, including their technique but who has great fast sharp movements without the ball, the ability to consistently perform these 10 meter (or whatever) high intensity sprints over the course of a game, and that way create space both for themselves and others.
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Originally Posted by Green Kool Aid
How do you go about ranking players who are injured? David Villa and Rossi are two players who come to mind.
Also, I hope you are now convinced that Dempsey is a top 300 guy! Don't really think any Americans outside of him and Donovan deserve to be on the list still.
I have to say I'm more of a Donovan-guy, especially now that he is back in England reminding (fwiw) me that he is a good player. I'm still not really that big a fan of Dempsey, not even when he is scoring goals, but yeah let's just say he has done enough to make the potential question of "how many American players" on the list?" very uninteresting.
Last edited by Bjørn; 02-20-2012 at 04:21 PM.