I asked a question in the PT3 forums about supporting cake poker hand histories.

http://www.pokertracker.com/forums/v...p=70671#p70671

I didn't ask for a HUD but just the ability to import them and analyze afterwards. This is nothing special and would not take very long. What I received was the standard, "we do not support this nor can we help you".

Someone contacted HEM and asked the same thing and instead of hassling you or telling what cant be done, the HEM team actually just fixed it and made it happen.

This is why HEM kicks PT3 arse. When you ask the HEM team for a update/suggestion/feature they work their butts off implementing it instead of telling you it cannot be done.

Therefore I have purchased HEM and will have all my poker playing buddies purchase it as well.

I would avoid PT3 unless you want hassle and trouble. The HEM team is miles ahead in pure functionality and ability "To Do".

Karma

Well to be fair, when people ask me about Cake I say the same thing which is that we won't be supporting it at least until we got some clarification on where they stand with personal stat tracking.

However, if someone sends me some Stars formatted hands that don't import then I'll make whatever tweaks are needed to get the hands working.

Roy

What you asked was still something that is in violation of the TOC of cake poker. PT3 chooses to adhere to the rules at each site, which some of us would consider a positive thing...

I like HM, but I gotta be fair and tell you another story; I had a problem with getting PT to work when I had a trial version, it went on for a few days to get the HUD right. So by that time, my allotted hands where just about done. I and PT went through a lot to get it working correct. I sent them 1 message about my disappointment on not really getting a good trial of the properly functioning software, they sent me an apology and a PATCH for an added 10,000 hands. Not to bad, I was happy.
I used it while waiting for HM to be out so I could compare before buying. So I get HM trial, nothing but trouble for my system never got to use the HUD for more than maybe 20 hands per session then it would lock or go haywire went through alot with them on the forum could not get it resolved and asked for a patch to resolve the issue while doing an IN SESSION SUPPORT (i think thats what they call it) NOPE NOTHING they just let me walk away with that experience. I was NOT HAPPY the whole HM trial was troubleshooting my problem, witch was never resolved. The only real use of the software I got was doing the first 3 articles thats it.PERIOD.NOT HAPPY

Wrong. Cake poker allows hand histories to be stored that YOU have played in and thus be used for analysis. They do not want people using HUD's but they do not mind if you analyze your own histories for self improvement.

It has nothing to do with adhering to TOC's or other Bs.

Karma

No, you are wrong. About a year ago, we were in private discussion with Cake about adding support in PT3. No Hud functionality, just importing of a user's own hands. They wanted us to radically change the functionality of PT3 to severely limit our users (like not importing any data for any player other than the hero) and we refused to do so. They said they wanted no tracking functionality at all without those changes. The discussion ended in their court, so we are still waiting for them.

We refuse to break a site's TOS and risk our users' bankrolls. There are plenty of questionable software vendors who will though, so if you want functionality that will break a site's TOS, I'm sure you can find it somewhere. Our users have always been safe using PokerTracker and we plan on keeping it that way.

Shameless Plug

On a side note: you can't blame PT for not being able to import HHs that have been converted. It has no problem importing hands that actually come from Stars. Therefore, if you are having a problem with converted hands, you need to complain to the person/company that created the hand converter.

-red

It appears that you need to update as here is there ToS article 9 from their website http://cakepoker.com/en/Help/Integri...OfService.aspx

9. ROBOTS, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND OTHER SYSTEMS:
It is strictly forbidden to use any automated software or computer system to play at CAKE, including the action of sending information from Your computer to another computer where such software or system is active. Poker-Robots or any software designed to play automatically at poker sites is not allowed. At any time while You are playing at CAKE, the Software may scan Your computer for any activity of such software and systems. Also forbidden is the use of any software during the game that is designed to track and display the actions of the other players on the site or any system or service to transfer funds to or from a player's CAKE account to their account at any other site or the deliberate "dumping" of chips between any accounts on the Cake Poker Network. Usage of such methods will result in the closing of Your account and be subject to confiscation of Your winnings and funds. CAKE reserves the right to publicize information of any such documented abuse including Your personal information.

Nowhere in this ToS from cake poker does it say, you can not import your hand histories into a poker software for self improvement AFTER playing. If they did not want you to have hand histories then why do they create them for you on your own computer? Please stop with excuses. Again, you are proven wrong. You would be more productive if you would take this energy and make your product better instead of arguing with would be clients.


Karma

Cake flat out told us that they didn't want tracking support, as PT has it, on their site. Until Cake gives us the go-ahead, we will not be adding support. If you want support, you'll need to contact Cake and try to get them to change their mind.

We are not making excuses and I don't know why you would think that. Naturally, we want our software to support as many sites as possible, but we are not going to do anything to jeopardize our users or their bankrolls.

To point out the obvious, there's a difference between what Cake says they want and what's in their TOS. There is nothing in the TOS about using hand histories. Note that Cake chooses to provide hand histories. So PokerAce's statement "We refuse to break a site's TOS" is a misleading irrelevancy. Misleading by suggesting anyone that supported Cake hand history analysis would be breaking their TOS.

So HEM supports Cake HH files now with no converting?

If you want to be productive, why don't you get in touch with cake yourself and get them to officially clarify wether or not they will allow the trackers to do what you want them to?

If it's as clear cut as you seem to think, then it should be pretty trivial to get an official statment supporting it?

It's in all our interest that the trackers stay on the good side of the sites out there - including the ones that do not allow them. Once they start to get a reputation as shady and non-cooperative with the sites, they're all the more likely to be banned and have the sites work against them.

I emailed cake poker yesterday and they responded that it was forwarded to the appropriate department and that it could take a day to get back to me.

Today I received the following email from cake poker regarding hand history issue. You can contact them yourselves and verfiy.

Hello xxxxx,

All your hands are saved to your hard drive and may be reviewed and used by you in any way you choose. CakePoker does not permit the use of HUD's or other software assistance programs which track the records of other players, but we do not have any policy regarding players' analysis of their own hands.




Regards,

Omar

Cake Poker Security




What sayeth now PT3.

Karma

Not trying to be difficult, but that is a pretty vague statement. Trackers will by default "track the records of other players" which it says here is not allowed. Even if it's just for the hands you yourself have played in, they're lumping it in with HUDs which are clearly not allowed, even if you only use stats from hands you yourself have played in.

So how do you get a tracker to help analyse your own hands without simultaneously tracking the records of other players?

They actually made it quite clear. You're not allowed to track others' records. So you can look at HHs, but you can't aggregate them. How much easier to understand do you want it?

Well Genius, I intentionally left out my original email which stated "I plan to review my hand histories by importing them into software and then replaying them using the software".

their response indicates that this is ok.

Karma

All I can say is I've been very disappointed with PT/Hud support after a recent Party update.

You should purchase holdem manager. Holdem manager is in the business of pleasing its customers instead of making excuses.

Karma

Their response indicates what I just said, you clown.

What part of "All your hands are saved to your hard drive and may be reviewed and used by you in any way you choose." can you not understand genius.

Karma

FWIW, I've emailed cake a number of times on the issue, and their answers will vary depending on which support person replies. I've had replies that make it sound like PT3 would be ok. On the other hand, when I specifically asked about Redlotus's CPST (which is clearly only capable of tracking personal stats) -- the support person who responded "strongly discouraged" me from using it.

seems clear cut to me

Here are the replies I've compiled:






Regarding CPST:

FYI you're allowed to buy both programs. I own both, and I'd recommend both to everybody. The HEM HUD I much prefer to that of PT3, so if I had to pick one and only one it would be HEM. Luckily, however, I'm not forced to make that choice. Neither are you guys.

LOL at the "problematics for the Cake Poker application."

Anyway, here was the response that I got when I emailed them about CPST:
I think the biggest problem that they have with PT and HeM is that they can't be sure that statistics won't be compiled for other players. Both programs are designed to do just that, afterall.

In regards to CPST, they don't want to spend the man hours (ie money) to make sure that it doesn't breach their ToS. This is why you will probably always get a non-comital response from them.

-red