I just reloaded my holdem manager after playing without it for a while. FWIW I managed 9PTBB/100 over 40K hands at NL30. I recently moved back to NL50 so I thought I'd give HEM another go to see if it affected my win rate.

There is a new program advertised there called Leak Buster. I don't know how long its been there, but I can't find a review. I have 20 leaks accoring to this software. Maybe if I fix them I can win at 100BB/100

has anyone used it and, if so, how did you find it? Oh and at what stakes do you play?

TIA

So 119 people have looked thinking this is a review? maybe the title was bad. Could a mod change it to "looking for a leak buster review"

Or maybe no one uses the software. Or maybe they do , but it is so meh, no one can be arsed reviewing it. I read one comment on the HEM site saying that the original leak fix documents were just as good if not better and that the leak buster was a waste of money. But hey I don't know how good the guy is.

I play mainly a self taught style at around 18/9 FR. I have been playing semi seriously (for a hobby player) for about 2 years, but have never played higher than 100Nl FR for any length of time. I would still be interested to know if this software helps a player at a similar level to me who is basically lazy when it comes to improving his game.

leak buster is a waste of money

/close thread

It's brand new and beta (week old). There are some reviews but they are in dutch though.
50k-100k hands is recommended for accuracy.

Since I helped in the development of it, I know it pretty well. I vouch for it, but I'm pretty biased. I know the work that went into it, and how the algorithms score ranges, and the accuracy that they project in proper sample sizes (if you aren't deleting a bunch of large losing hands) .

I think it offers tremendous value to players who mainly play 25nl-400nl. The content + the ability to track your scoring is a great system for plugging your leaks, and understanding your game better.

So if someone has questions on it, they can ask. I'll do my best to answer.

Done (and I was one of the people who looked thinking it was a review too ).

Juk

Thx Juk

I was kind of hoping for something non biased (maybe using post history to determine credibility)

But as you are the one of only two responses, I will try to further the discussion.

How is leak buster better than the written reports on plugging leaks?

I kind of know where my leaks are and have an idea how to plug them. Not knowing if I am 100% correct and some laziness is what prevents me changing my game much I think as I win an acceptable amount. Specific instruction based on for instance commonly spotted leaks in my own HHs and actaually showing me how or suggesting a number of ways I could have played a hand differently and more profitably would be useful.
Does it go this far?

I have seen two english "reviews" so far, one ^^ and on one HEM forum. Both said that tthe software was a waste of money, and that the written instructions which are commonly re posted here by pokey (OP)?? and the ones that HEM specifically linked to were just as good if not better.

I hope this will kick start the discussion. As a concept it seems a great idea. In reality however ????

im also interested in this software.

@FreakDaddy:
can you explain how the rating system can achieve good results? i understand the median stats from the biggest winners over big samples are used. but what if the biggest winners play from lets say 20/18 to 28/26. does the program rate me better the closer i am to the median (lets say 24/22)? then it could tell me to change my (e.g. 26/24) game even though theres nothing wrong with these two stats (by themselves).

what about different strategies in general? lets say i play very aggressive, and therefore can valuebet thinner. will the program tell me that i play 1) too aggressive and 2) valuebet too thin? if i change one of these i will play worse than before. i dont think there is one 2-barreling frequency that is the best, it is the whole strategy that counts and some strategies require more 2-barreling than others.

basically i'm skeptical that a program like this can work in theory. i would love to be convinced though, it sound really cool

There are no articles out there that cover the compilation of stats Leak Buster covers, scores them based on an algorithm that weighs the importance of leaks, highlights those for you, and then offers you video, written, quiz material to improve your leaks. Leak Buster is an easy way with one click of the button to see where your game may getting out of alignment.

Leak Buster also creates a framework for how to analyze your game, so that you can continue to to have a system for reviewing your play. Using the filters, and videos that go with them, along with a tracking system so that you can watch your play improve as you make adjustments.

There are several other neat features. I think the HUD part is REALLY helpful for just about any player. Understanding how to use stat ranges and apply them in real time makes a big impact on winrate.

There haven't been any reviews about it yet (but there will be soon from what I understand). I only know of the 1 negative post you're referring to in the HEM forums by a user who slammed it less than 3 hours after it was released, and then made a post that didn't contain any truth in it. You can't refute these kinds of posts, when people aren't being rational. Constructive criticism is always welcomed, but that was just a hate rant because poster was upset that he already spent $80 on HEM (which is WAY under priced), and feels the developer should be including all of these other add-ons for free essentially. I asked sales, and there's been 1 requested refund, the above mentioned guy. Everything else has been nothing but positive feedback from customers. And there's no one that's involved in Leak Buster that would accept someone's money if they didn't feel they were getting good value from the software. It has 100% satisfaction guarantee on it.

As far as how Leak Buster works, the kinds of stats, and how they relate together are an important component of why Leak Buster scores so accurately. Different stats, rated together would give vastly different results. Basically, it's taking these ranges independent of one another, but only because these were taken and compiled together from several different strategies. So the mean peak winrates of these are taken together and scored based on how much out of those ideal winrates losses effect a persons overall winrate.

And to your point styx, this is essentially why Leak Buster was constructed how it was. It's obviously a complex web of how a certain style effects stats and impacts how or why you get paid off. If someone is playing really nitty, then they aren't going to get paid off if they bet for 3 streets of value, where someone who is double barreling and bluffing a lot will with a higher frequency.

But here's the interesting thing... If you agree that let's say a VPIP% of 54 will not yield long term expected value. Then you have to begin to narrow down, that VPIP will yield positive expected value, and then is there a range that is most ideal and will yield the highest expected value? That's essentially what Leak Buster is attempting to do, is make a case for the absolute best overall strategy for small and mid-stakes games. The stats are just the reflection of that overall style.

Does that mean that someone who is playing on the level of Ivey post flop, can't be outside of some of these stats and maintain a very high winrate.... yes. From what we have found with our studies though, this is the very rare extreme exception and not the rule.

The best way to validate what I'm talking about though is to just play around with the trial a bit. If you go to your players tab, and run a report for any players that you have 50k+ hands on. Then right click some of those players and click "select this player". Then go into leak buster an import those stats, you can start verifying and seeing how certain ranges of players winrates will correlate with leak buster scoring. So if you pick a losing player, look at their score, a marginal winner, big winner, etc...

If there was no correlation, then I think we could say that stats don't really matter.

Good questions so far...

thanks for your answer, interesting stuff.

as to the optimal strategy: i believe there are very different strategies that are equally profitable. and even if there is one that is most profitable, i dont think it will be profitable for me to change my game to that strategy (unless i happen to use a somewhat similar strategy already).

i recently had a friend of mine who is a winning player at 5/10NL give me a coaching session at NL100 (he has never done coaching before). i played on a few tables and he just told me what he would do, for instance he would bet more or bet less or stuff like that. but he couldnt really articulate his reasoning behind it, and more importantly he thought that my choices were probably good too, its just a different style (we had mainly small differences like bet sizing).

i also had some other coaching sessions with coaches that got very good reviews on the forum and they basically adjusted to my strategy and the discussion went like "if you 3-bet hands like that, what hands do you flat call?", "if you often fire two barrels in this spot whats the worst hand you would bet for value two times?".

i assume the leak buster thing will work similar to the first one, it will compare my strategy to one winning strategy and it might be hard to learn anything from that, unless you are a beginner.

i didnt try the program yet so i might be totally wrong of course. it still sounds very interesting to me and i think i'm gonna give it a try anyway.


one final question: im not quite sure i understood your point about the optimal strategy right: did you find one best strategy from the data or did you find several? if you havent yet, it might be interesting to find more strategies than just one (local optimum instead of global optimum). then a player could compare his strategy to the "optimal" strategy closest to his own.

I'm a naturally skeptical person. As a philosopher (and that's what I got my degree in), it's been in my DNA since I popped out of the womb. It's healthy to be skeptical. Just as long as your don't allow the skepticism from blocking you to new ideas (not saying that's what you are doing at all, your questions are great).

Here's the thing, and I know it may be hard for some to accept. All Leak Buster is doing is taking all styles and approaches to poker, and finding the absolute most ideal style(s) for the game you're playing in. So for 400nl and below games, the stat ranges are slight variations in styles that yielded the highest winrates. It's not trying to box you into just one style, but essentially offer a guideline for understanding why certain stat ranges effect winrate. The most profitable styles are slightly tight TAG, to slightly LAG.

Yes, all different kinds of styles can win at poker. We all know this. However, if you really look at the numbers and the results of the different styles, there are clearly a few different kinds of styles that produce the highest results for the games you're in. As you move up in stakes, this changes, BUT for the stake levels I mentioned, it's important to really build this kind of foundation where you are winning at a high rate, and have the confidence in your game to continue to evolve as a player.

So the choice is that you can play outside of that optimal style, but it's going to be extremely unlikely you're going to win as much as you should, and that's why the scoring in Leak Buster correlates so closely to a persons winrate. Like I said before, take any style of player, and plug it in. And I should state, if someone is a really good LAG player (which is much more rare than you'd probably think), and say their VPIP is slightly out of the recommended VPIP (which for 6max the range is (18-24). In this case if their VPIP is say 28%, but they are killing the games they are in, Leak Buster will score a potential leak for their VPIP, but there will be a lot of other things they are doing really well which will result in a very high score (usually over 9.3+ in these cases).

One of the biggest things about Leak Buster though is it's providing material for those leaky areas (in the form of videos, written modules, quizzes), so that you can begin to understand why you likely have this leak, and then you can make the correct adjustments. Because the goal with Leak Buster isn't to get people to try to force things to reach certain stat ranges, but rather provide learning material for why their particular ranges can produce leaks, and provide material on how to become a better player for that area of your game. Then you are learning to think about the game deeper, make better decisions, and those better decisions will result in more ideal stat ranges, not the other way around.

I personally wouldn't be involved in this project, if I didn't believe it offered really good value to micro,small and mid-stakes players. I honestly wish we had things like this when I was learning 5+ years ago, because it really quickly helps make sense out of your poker stats, and how to use those to become a better player.

On a side note, it sounds like you got some really bad coaching, which isn't unusual. If you read my coaching page some time, you'll see that one of the first things I emphasize is about not forcing a particular style upon any given player, but recognizing what that persons individuals strengths and weaknesses are, and then cultivating the strengths, and improving the weaknesses. That's what good coaches should be doing imho.

I'm writing a first impressions article up for ****************** next week, i'll be sure to link it when it publishes. The short:

- For the price, probably a worthwhile investment.
- Great job linking with other assets like videos and articles
- Fun to play around with

I'll look forward to it

TIA

Well heres my review so far.

the idea is quite neat (taking what seems to be optimal stats and comparing yours to em)
like spreadsheets are simple in concept but good in what you can do with em.
same here, the optimal stats are redily available, but here put into a neat package.
I've found it great fun! another toy to play with, to get a high score etc.

(poker wise i'm still trying to pass breaking even, so i've a lot to learn (if ever! so ya know where i'm comming from))

For people like me, being optimal is not so much an issue and not being in the right area, or for that matter looking AT a particular stat.
Currently it keeps telling me my PFR% is way too low, but i thought and think i'm raising all the time PF so me looks at PT3 stats and err not it seems.
so to me its been very usful.
i'm listing and comparing the Leak buster score to profit (or evens)
so far theres a sort of corrilation, but i've not used it that long to say 'yip much better now'.

The guys at the other end have been great, tho i must say i still cant install the filters yet, or know what they are to install em myself.

ok sooo
review, i think its great, for what it is, its sort of pricey, but like PT3 its a one off payment, and i recon will pay for itself. so to contradict myself, i'm now happy with the price, cos i think its gonna be usful. and is definatly fun.

However . . . .

it sure needs tweeking!
the framework of it is brilliant. it now needs the 'holes' filling in to make it super duper.
like:- maybe separate videos on each one of the stats, not maybe a lot pointing to one video.
more on Why each stat is how it is. like Why ya need to PFR
and 'you need to be more aggressive' here is Why?

(used to be a programmer so i'm excused making suggestions (i think?))
the leak history graph is good but (suggestion) can we edit the data? insert bits and the listing (with a field) that says What that data is, i.e. Full ring for Jan 2009 score etc.
the graph it shows is it left to right or right to left?
the 'import stats' on step 2 is not clear what it's importing, and when it shows the results you're not sure what results youve got.

(currently i'm cut and pasting it into XL)

needs tweaking but the basic idea is neat and i like it.
a happy customer

meanwhile anybody out there got what the filters are? then i can enter em into PT3 myself.

To be positive again (after my suggestions :-))
Click Click and it says '3Betting, do it more!'

and for some it might be '3Bet more' errr what is it?
or for me Squeeze more. and i thought 'Squeeze? whats that?'
That for me is good.
If your already a good player it possibly int that usful, tho would be fun.
for me tho its brill.

await Ver 3 (with the tweaks)

[p.s. all spelling mistakes are intentional to make you feel good]

Thanks for the feedback. We're actively developing it, but the PT3 version and HM version are pretty different. The HM integrated version has a lot more features than the PT3 version, but they both have high value for most players.

We're always open to suggestions, and we've incorporated lots of customers ideas / feedback, so don't be shy. We're trying to make this product as useful, and helpful as can be, and we listen to everything customers have said.

Thanks again.

I bought it about a week ago. I figured it was inexpensive enough for what it does. I havent really went deep into it yet and I dont think I will ever get a high score on it because I only play 2-4 tables so I am alot looser and raise way too much preflop compared to what it suggest. However, I do like the ability to do a one click checkup and maybe just bring my attention to things not as obvious I should think about while playing such as turn cbet percentage or that I am overly positionally aware etc.

I previously have manually run checkup filters ie biggest losing hands etc though watching training site vids or from post on the forum. It nice to be able to them automatically through a click of a button. I think the HEM leakbuster does that but I have PT3 version and it doesnt. It does have an install filter button but my leakbuster freezes when I try it. I havent had time to write their support to see what the issue is.

All in all I like the product. I think its worth the price because the players it would help the most are probably the microstake players thus justifying the price and to 100nl-400nl players its a small percentage of a buyin and worth the convenience factor to give quick checkups or attention to something they are overlooking. Also, from reading Freakdaddy's posts, he really does seem to care about the product and its improvement. I think that is a huge factor in whether leakbuster is a good purchase. I really do hope the PT3 version catches up with the HEM version eventually.

How and why is the HEM version better than the PT3 version?

Thanks for the feedback. Just PM me w/ your e-mail and we'll get your filter issue worked out.

The HM integrated version has development priority right now. There are more features in the HM version that you can read about in this thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/45...60/index8.html

PT3 stand alone version is great too. It just doesn't have as many "bells and whistles".

At what point will the PT version be on par with the HEM? Is the PT version discounted to reflect the lower functionality?

The new features for the HM version just went in recently (this past week). I don't know the timetable for the stand a lone version, but there isn't a discount, as this how the software has been from the beginning. It's actively being developed, so new features will be added.

This is an old tread but I thought it was the best place to ask a question:
I tested 'leak buster' and got told I didn't fold my BB to a steal enough.
Does leak buster simply say your BB fold 2 steal% is 59.8%, it should be 65-84% so you are loosing money. Or does it say in the hands I played out of the recommended range I lost an additional x dollars more than I would of had I simply folded? If so where do I find which hands I'm calling in the BB with that I should be folding?

Hopefully somebody will see this. Cheers.

ya can download a limited version but what is says is.
it lists the stats like 'bb fold to seat' gives your value, mine is '85.3' says what is should be '69-83' (for full ring) and gives you a score if your over it or under it.
i've the one for pokertracker but i think they in't doing if for that anymore.

you can ask for the stats over different time frames like this month or this year etc.

i'm a bit confused now, ya say you tested it, but then ask what it does?
anyway the full version lists a load more stats.
doesn't give amount lost. pt3 version anyway

it also says what your doing wrong and offers suggestions.
i think the Holdem one is fuller.

Why don't you post this is in the Leakbuster forum on HEM and speak to the LB people direct.