Nice

I understand what PS is getting at, but the problem is that this isn't a well-defined line. If we work under the assumption that datamining gives one an edge (this thread wouldn't exist otherwise, right), then drawing an arbitrary line somewhere on how much you can datamine just makes the cut right below the line the next-best strategy. For example, it seems like datamining 4 tables for 5 minutes is allowed, but not 12 tables for 6 hours. If 12 tables for 6 hours is not allowed, then 12 tables for 5h 59m becomes the best way to maximize one's edge. If that's not allowed then 5h 58m, 5h 57m, etc. One could approach it from the other direction as well. If 4 tables for 5 minutes is allowed, then is 4 tables for 6m, 7m, 8m, etc. Or what about 5 tables for 5m, 6m, 7m?

In any type of competitive game, players will do everything they can to maximize their edge. We're talking about within the rules, of course. There are always players who will go outside the rules, but that's not pertinent to this discussion. We, as serious players, will buy books to read, discuss strategy on these forums, get coaching, video subscriptions, use tracking software, etc, and all of this is well-defined to be within the rules of PS. But now with datamining, the above letter basically sets up a situation where players have to guess where the line is to best maximize their edge, while still remaining within the boundaries of the stated rules. As a result, players who are trying to follow the rules risk getting their account closed if they happen to step over some unspecified line that a PS support representative subjectively deems to be "too much".

I think this thread needs to be re-posted in IG, with the OP of the new thread, quoting Cliff Notes of this thread, obviously beginning with that quoted e-mail. It will get a lot more attention in the Zoo as an OP, then it will here as an existing thread.

it's in two IG threads already I think

His reply email? and the links to the Poker Office forums?


*@ ur reply:

g00t

the email certainly. and similar posts of wtf ima buy pokeroffice now zomg etc.

How much is this Data mine program Poker Office?

I think the answer here is to combine stars planner with the datamining code posted earlier in this thread. Thus creating a script with a primary purpose of arranging tables but which might also be able to datamine.

I for one always open my 18 tables and wait then something always comes up IRL and I have to set away from my Desktop.

What then?

It seems to me that all of us loyal PokerTracker users need is to petition them to add the same functionality as Poker Office to track observed tables - which in PS own words is completely legit. I for one am not trying to build a MASSIVE database - I could see why some would. But for table selection and while waiting, this is a huge advantage Poker Office has over PokerTracker.

So it seems logical that we ask for that functionality from the software we all pay for - that isn't Poker Stars responsibility.

Anyone get feedback from the PT Forum?

This is why more clarification is needed from Stars

PA-HUD went to extra trouble to make sure it could never "accidentally" mine observed tables so as not to become a banned program - and now we are to understand that it would be OK?

PokerStars needs to have PO remove the functionality or ban it imo. Or allow datamining.

I would not be against adding a feature in PT3 that will allow this. However, we would likely restrict it to be within the spirit of the rule. For instance, limiting the number of observed tables to 8 or so.

Works for me! I know people who want to cheat will always find a way to do it. I just think we should have the equal ability to have immediate reads and table selection ability that PO users have.

I would love it!

gogogogogogogo

Given there are people who 10-12 even 16 table seems like u should go to 12 at least

There are also people who 24-30 table, but these people are few and far between, and supporting that many observed tables may be going too far. I'd like to get official word from PokerStars before I do anything like this though.

I think you're probably in the best position to get this silly situation resolved, one way ore the other doesn't really matter - but current (PO allowed to datamine "a bit" - other apps = banned) needs fixing.

Good Luck with that.

QFMFT+1

Stars need to clarify their position on mining. Allowing an application to mine but not another is news to me.

Well based on my experience with trying to get them to explain the position on real-time SNG EV calculators you're looking at 2012 at the earliest...

Juk

The whole stars position on data mining is such a joke. Their software is ridiculously easy to mine - they make no effort to prevent it at all. For example, if full tilt didn't actually write observed hand histories to your drive, it would be way more difficult than stars IMO. I am speaking as a programmer here. Stars hand histories can be read directly from memory using a program that would be maybe 20 lines at most. I have a good mind to publish a free mining app just to force stars to clarify their position somewhat.

Already been done.

name of app? link??

Link.

And link.

Anon