A stranger is being shown around a village that he has just become part of. He is shown a well and his guide says "On any day except Sunday, you can shout any question down that well and you'll be told the answer" .
The man seems pretty impressed, and so he shouts down: Why not on Sunday? and the voice from in the well shouts back: Because on Sunday, it’s your day in the well.

Having graciously accepted his nomination, Runvnme (he'll remind us of his online sign-ons if he chooses) is in the Well. I have come to expect, thoughtful, insightful and articulate posts from Runvnme and anticipate that he will answer our questions in similar manner. He's not obligated to answer or share with us that which he chooses to keep to himself, but nor does he have to heed to those who express concern about sharing strategy with those of us less skilled and knowledgable.

Runvnme is a MTT player, having fairly recently switched/began playing omaha8b, but why not get these details from the man himself.

How long have you been playing online?
Why did you begin to play O8?
How many MTT's per week do you average?
Do you have a favorite(specific) tournament?
Why specialize in MTTS rather than play cash games?
these are just a few basic questions out to start.

Congratulations on finishing 11th on the Full Tilt April(monthly) MTT Leaderboard, how much of that success is O8 and what other games do you continue to play? and Thank You for doing this well.

What's the 90's equivalent to Trailer Park Boys?
Do you multi-table? If so how many max/min
Are you a nit?

Thank you very much, I'm flattered to be asked to do this. Maybe this qualifies for some people as a "So anybody gets a well nowadays?" moment because I've only been posting in O8 for about 5 months. However, I believe the most recent chapter of my poker story could be interesting to anyone who aspires to do well in PLO8 MTTs. If you would like to parlay your poker skills into a well nomination, I guess my advice would be to make your average post length at least 1/2 a page and manage to make an impression on the three people that read them.

I don't have much concern about sharing strategy, so fire away. After a certain point I tried to stop mentioning my screen names, but for the sake of the well I don't mind sharing.

Stars: DTrain27
Full Tilt: DTrain27x


I've been playing online since Fall 2005. I started with play money and freerolls with the aim of getting better than my friends after my first poker home game. Obviously my goals have evolved.

I played a few PLO8 MTTs before late November 2008 and could see they were soft, but I wasn't sure about devoting time to learning them and didn't play regularly on Stars or Full Tilt where I could play a lot of them. I played about 5K hands of heads up LO8 on a small site against fish with a grudge, which started from being lured by a fish I was playing HU LHE against. Then when I put some money on Stars, I gave them a whirl and in a few days I won the $22 5K gtd. Two days later I won the $22 7K gtd. Major luckboxing will get you hooked, so I've played over 1000 PLO8 MTTs and 500 PLO8 SNGs in the last 5 months.

Last month I guess I averaged a bit over 400 MTTs per week: 1100 45-player and 90-player NLHE SNGs, a few other NLHE MTTS , and a little over 100 PLO8 MTTs. Before last month, I was playing something like 80-120 per week.

For a favorite tournament, I love the Stars weekly $215 PLO8 because there are a lot of randoms who are awful splashing around for that kind of money.

I specialize in tournaments right now because I feel they are my best game. I've been playing full time for about 18 months and I shyed away from MTTs previously because of the variance. I also like MTTs because you can put in a lot of mindless volume compared to cash games. I have interest in a lot of poker games so I may not always be so focused on MTTs for the rest of my poker playing days.

My placement on the Full Tilt MTT leaderboard last month was almost solely from 45 and 90 player NLHE SNGs. This leaderboard is geared to volume players so most of the players near the top grind these. The PLO8 MTTs helped a bit, but the volume of them available just doesn't compare. However, partially due to a heater and the second place in the Stars 25K PLO8, I made probably about twice as much in PLO8 MTTs than I did in those SNGs last month.

I play 12-18 tables when it's mostly NLHE MTTs but I can handle 4 or 5 PLO8 MTTs in the mix with that many. I might push to play more tables soon, we'll see. When I'm playing a session with the bigger PLO8 MTTs and 5 sites involved, I just play 4-10 tables so I can give PLO8 MTTs and any specific tournament I'm doing well in the focus it needs.

The 90's equivalent to Trailer Park Boys is definitely Kids in the Hall. It's sketch comedy, so it's not the same kind of show. However, in terms of popularity and branding as distinct Canadian-made comedy it's by far the closest thing to compare.

For those who don't know, TPB is a Canadian mockumentary TV series about life in a trailer park that started as very small budget and quickly acheived cult status in Canada. There have been 7 seasons, a feature movie, and second movie is coming. My avatar is a character from the show called "Bubbles".

Very impressive, runvnme. You obviously know your stuff.

Thank you for agreeing to do the well. (And thank you, niceguysFT, for starting this well).

A few questions to start, runvnme. Don't feel you have to answer them if you're uncomfortable doing so.

1. Why do you play Omaha-8?

2. You mentioned in another recent post that you had a simplified and approximate method for using ICM in tournament play. Would you share a bit of what that involves?

3. I'm thinking you're Canadian. Is that true?

4. Are there any personal details you're willing to share, such as age, marital status, education, job status, etc.?

Buzz

I think what I love the most about it is the wrinkle of split pots and the challenges that presents in hand-reading along with the advantages it can give to a skilled player. I like PLO8 because it is a big bet game like NLHE and PLO that certainly presents some different situations. Lastly, I'd have to say one thing I really like about O8 is that there isn't a large abundance of learning materials about the game. Because of this I think the work I put in away from the tables may have more payoff in comparison to more well-published games.


Yeah, I live in Calgary in Western Canada. It's a city of a million north of Montana and on the edge of the Rockies.


I'm 30 years old and I'm single. I have a BSc. in Computer Science and I worked in the IT industry for 4.5 years before I started to play full time. I didn't exactly quit my job with the intent to play full time. I completely burned out from being in sweatshop companies and being a workaholic who finds it hard to say no. I took a few months off for a break, and when it came time to put bread on the table I chose poker instead of going back to a "real job". I've stuck with it for a year and a half now, so my job status is playing poker full time. I don't think I'll do it forever, but for now it's pretty awesome not having a boss and setting my own hours and holidays.



I'll answer #2 later

I gotta ask how you get picked to do a well over so many more well known names out there?

I am not referring to myself either!! I have absolutely no clue who you are.

I forgot to answer the last part - I don't think I'm a nit. I'm maybe a little on the tighter side at 23/12.5 in PLO8 MTTs in my latest database. I change gears A LOT based on the situation. I play nittier than many winners may early in tournaments but I get complaints on some final tables about how loose and aggressive I am.

In NLHE MTTs I'm LAG at heart, but I think you can only play that way when stacks, tournament structures, and table texture are right for it.

In full ring LO8 I'm a nit.

Hi Mega - It's not my well, but it's probably best if I answer your question.

He got nominated by a solid poster and he got approved by the moderators.

Buzz

I understand where your question is coming from. I do believe this day when my well appeared has drastically lowered the bar for who gets to do a well. However, I love the trend of wells being popular in this forum, so please pick someone you would you like in the well and nominate them to keep things going after this. The more the merrier?

I have only been around in this O8 forum for 5 months, but I believe I was asked to do a well mostly based on the in-depth posts I have contributed. I tend to respond mostly to PLO8 MTT and PLO8 SNG threads, so if these don't interest you then you're unlikely to know me or be interested in this well. I realize there are much bigger names in O8 and definitely better players in the specific games I play, but I feel my O8 experience is of interest to some people.

As for qualifications beyond my posting history, I've gone from only having dabbled in about 25 PLO8 MTTs lifetime and zero PLO8 cash game experience to almost 70K in gross PLO8 MTT winnings in 5 months. I think I've had probably only about 4 or 5 scores being 2K-5K to inflate things, and I've played over 1000 PLO8 MTTs in that time. I don't think I'm the best player in PLO8 MTTs, but I do I think I can help people who are interested in transitioning their NLHE MTT knowledge into PLO8 MTT success. Besides this, I'm not afraid to share and secrets and I'm always willing to take the time to help people.

1st you're a sicko.

2nd I'm comin for ya.

3rd from what you know of me, what do you think could be a profitable schedule for me, playing up to the 44 plo8 on ftp, and whatever else I can satty into.

4th, where do you see the mtt o8 game going in the near future? Is it worth the time to become an o8 mtt specialist?

BTW, you are allowed to ignore question 3.

Ive recently had a major fascination with MTT's. Most of my questions may relate
primarily to NLHE but hopefully the tournament model can be applied to PLO8 too.

Some of my questions Im curious about, because I want to know how the
high volume MTT'ers approach the game differently then the guys who
are really playing in depth poker and watching opponents closely.

#1a)Are you more of a survivalist mid-way through tournament w/ intention
of turning up heat once you make the money, or are you looking
to gamble more often than not vs slightly smaller stacks (or maybe bigger) with the
intention of getting a huge amount of chips to close out the bubble?

#1b)When you make it to the bubble do you generally have a much bigger then
average stack (say at least 2x), or does it vary quite a bit from tourney to tourney.

#2)When you have a larger stack then your opponent ITM, (ie M of 10, opp has M of 7)
do you often find yourself making -EVc plays with the hopes of accumulating
a big stack for the final table run? Are you willing to do this with stacks reversed?

#3)When you accumulate a big stack mid-way to bubble, how do you approach the
game differently? Are you one of those players that limps and cold-call often to
see a lot of flops, or do you prefer open-stealing more, or perhaps just
playing ABC and letting the flow of the game come to you (If your aware of
Gigabytes stack/block theory feel free to expand in this area as well).

#4)In conclusion what are your strongest areas:

a)accumulating big stack pre bubble

b)surviving to ITM w/ avg stack most of time, then start gambling to make strong final
table finish

c)not getting in too many marginal situations with stacks that can bust
you at any point in tournament.

d)aware of table dynamics at all times despite multi tabling,and take whatever opponents
are willing to give without compromising T-life too often or making sure your healthy
EV vs opponent ranges.

e) any combination of above.


I'm hoping for not too many "It depends" answers, as I would think multi-tablers
mostly have a basic approach that they stick to over and over.

1. I've been told that once or twice.

2. Fine by me, just bring some fish with you.

3. For a good schedule, PLO8 MTTs are spread throughout the day so it's really up to what works for you. Certainly I center my schedule around my favorite tournaments. For PLO8 MTTs below $50, the $5 rebuys on both Stars and Full Tilt and the and $22s on Stars are really good. These have a bigger field so you should have a higher expected winrate (though it might be balanced by time costs), and it's a nice boost if you can score first for 60 buy-ins or whatever. Aside from that I think the FTOPs sats on Full Tilt are great value. Actually I think your style and any beginner to PLO8 in general is a little better off on Stars where the structures are generally slower and you can wait for better hands and you don't have as many shortstack spots with marginal hands that will have you feeling lost. Just be ready to play seven hours if you want to final table some of them.

4. I can't really act as a visionary for the game of O8, but since I've played for a living I do try to keep my ear to the ground on trends and such. I think PLO8 MTTs are slowly growing in popularity, but right now there certainly is a ceiling on your earning potential due to the limited number of PLO8 MTTs running. If you want to make more than that ceiling, you will have to supplement your play with PLO8 SNGs or another game. Unless there is an unforeseen explosion in PLO8 MTTs around the corner, I'm happy to fit as many PLO8 MTTs as I can into my schedule and just play other games to fill in the rest of my tablespace/brainspace.

As a tournament player, an exercise that I do when planning and setting goals is finding all the tournaments I might want to play. Then I add up the total buy-ins for them and estimate a realistic ROI number I can hope to achieve. Then if you can find a suitable schedule for your lifestyle and and you can handle the variance involved in those tournaments both mentally and financially, you're set to go. I've come actually plan to play something like 1.5 times as much volume as I'd need to make my financial goals, which leaves a buffer for time off, games conditions changing, etc.

No.

I want to avoid answering questions asked in your well, but this is more of a procedural question than a question posed to you.

We had a discussion about this a while back, not too long ago. My impression is the consensus was hosting a well is an honor and one well at a time is appropriate. It has now been about a week since AJB4's excellent well got any action.

I cannot pinpoint the reason you were asked to host a well and I can not pinpoint the reason your nomination was approved.

Speaking only for myself, as moderator, you're a successful Omaha-8 player, your posts on this forum are consistently high quality, and I think some of us can learn something from your well. Therefore I was pleased to approve the nomination. I was not the only person involved in approving the nomination.

Nobody who agrees to host a well should have to defend himself for being nominated and approved for this honor.

Buzz

Thanks Buzz, just as a small clarification... I meant the more the merrier in the future after this well is dry. I have enjoyed the wells in this forum lately.

Thanks for doing this....The question i have is:

Should new players learn the game via limit, nl or plo and also mtt's, sng's or cash?

these wells all seem so self-indulgent and undeserved. just my observation.

i am curious though, how does a guy who isn't an o8 grinder get an o8 well? just seems strange to me. carry on though, obv.

Hey Run,

Congrats on the well nomination and thanks for agreeing to do it, i figured you will being doing well sooner or later, im gald its sooner

I personally have become a much better player from your posts/insights.

My question for you is 1) what is your most common line with A23Kds utg midway through a mtt and you have average amount of chip stack, and to tack on another question with the same scenario 2) what if you pot it utg and then the big blind repops you for almost all of your chips where originally your pot bet was for roughtly 15-20% of your stack

thx again and too bad i dont run into you at cake any more, cheers

Just my 2 cents - anyone who has something good to add to the general play of o8 is a candidate for a well. Just because someone is not a long term poster or popular should have no bearing on their approval. I am looking forward to this because so little about MTT's is discussed here. And if you have no interest in this poster don't follow this well. I don't know anything about this poster but he seems to have had success so his insight should be good.

Runvmne I've played mostly cash but have played some tourneys lately. What is your strategy during the endgame of a sng? When blinds are high almost every hand is an allin fest. Do you try and see a flop without raising to give yourself some wiggle room?

In MTT's are you super tight early when blinds are small? There seems to be 2 separate thoughts as far as how aggressive to be preflop early.

It kind of depends on what you think you'd like to end up playing as well as your background in other games, but the easiest introduction into the O8 in general is probably limit at full ring.

My usual line with A23K ds in the middle stages is to raise to 3 blinds. If my stack is such that a single re-raise will put me all in, I'm happy if someone does it and I'm getting it in almost always. Some reasons I might limp this hand would be:
- if it was earlier in the tournament
- on the bubble with something like 8-15 blinds when there are shorter stacks
- if the table has some habitual crazy re-raisers, my stack is more than 12 blinds and I feel my edge is such that I'd rather see flops then gamble with them preflop

hi run. i have a few questions about adjusting to PLO8 mtts from NLHE mtts.

i consider myself to be a decent NLHE mtt'er (its never been my regular game but i dabble in them and do decently) and a solid PLO8 cash game player. however, i haven't been able to translate the skillsets to become a good plo8 mtt player. this is troubling to me because i'd like to play in some of the bigger live mtt events in this year's wsop and wsop circuit. so onto my questions:

at a tight table when stacks are shallow, is it advisable to be stealing from the CO and BTN with any four cards when people aren't defending unless they have premium hands?

if someone (lets say he's moderately active, not really nitty and not ultra-loose) 3bets you all in after a blind steal, what types of hands are you felting? A3KJ with a suit A? 234K ds? QQ34 ds? ever felting something like TJQK with a suit when you're getting like 2:1 on a call?

also, are you willing to get any AA in preflop for all your chips? or are there situations in which you're holding a bad AA (lets say AA8J rainbow) and fold when there's multiple players all in?


These are often the decisions I'm forced to make in late stages of plo8 mtts, which I'm simply not used to making in PLO8 cash games. In NLHE mtt's, I'm perfectly comfortable felting medium-strength hands preflop and accepting that I'm probably flipping, but I'm unsure of what types of hands I should be felting pre-flop in the late stages of PLO8 mtt's.

thx for any advice and congrats on crushing mtts.

I've only played 500 SNGs at $26 and $11, so I'll just let you know I'm not the greatest SNG expert around. However, my late game MTT experience helps and I have put in a lot of effort studying short stack play. When the blinds are high I generally don't limp to see flops. I don't think you can fight the fact that SNGs are all in fests late. I think the key to winning in these all in fests is:

1) Don't fold too much or the blinds will eat you.
2) Being first in the pot and having the fold equity is a big deal.
3) Bubble factors definitely come into play, and having a big stack can be really advantageous to raise a lot.
4) Get really familiar with hand equities and short stack math to be slightly better than the other players that are generally playing alright late

I assume you know about Propokertools, but some time and thought with it for short stack play rather than your usual cash games will help you with both of those points.
http://www.propokertools.com/simulat...tionEditor.jsp

About open-limping, as your stack gets shorter the times you can take down the blinds by raising gets to be more and more of a big deal. If you open limp, sometimes someone else will just pot it preflop anyway. When stacks are short enough you are going to be committed to the majortiy of flops. Generally I will only limp if I'm up against a major calling station or two that make it so I will literally almost never take down the blinds preflop. Usually those players will call down light postflop, so limping pre and pounding them when we hit will feels like the better approach to me in that case. If you're limping when you could be taking down the blinds a good amount, I think you're missing an opportunity. You just still need a decent enough hand to be doing ok for an all-in showdown. In the later stages with high blinds if I have an ok hand that might want to see a flop but I don't really want to get all in with against an aggressive player for my stack size, then I'd rather open fold than do anything else. When you can get good at estimating people's ranges, then it all just comes down to math. If you want a sample of some math just let me know.


I'm a little tight early, but not overly so. I am not too aggressive preflop in the early stages. I don't raise too much in an effort to keep the pots smaller and to see flops, and when I raise it's usually in later position. I try to play more hands in position and notice who is splashing around to find spots to pick up chips. Sometimes when the table is full of loose, horrible players I will play tonnes of hands in later position for a limp with deep stacks just looking to hit big and stack donks.

I think I can play a much looser style successfully if needed, but I just find it higher variance and I don't think accumulating the extra chips early some of the time has enough added benefit versus the risk. My philosophy is to wait for good low-risk spots to pick up chips. The degree to which I will be more patient for better spots depends on things like how good my opponents are, the tournament structure, etc. The day that most tournaments stop having easy spots to pick up enough chips with a patient style is the day my overall style will naturally change I guess. In general at a tough table in the Stars 109 I tend to still remain fairly tight but just get more aggressive. The times I'm not able to accumulate chips I'm confident in my short stack game and in PLO8 MTTs you can often survive a long time and still have a decent chance to win the whole thing from a short stack.

Well first of all it sounds like you may have a bit of a misconception about multi-tablers. There are surely some that play a really nitty and simple style due to the number of tables, but it certainly is not the case for all of them. I can play ten NLHE tables or about seven PLO8 tables the same style and virtually as well as I play one, and I would think some people can do more. When it comes to me playing more than 12 tables, its playing the 45 and 90 player NLHE SNGs which aren't deep stacked and don't leave much room for creativity no matter how many tables I play. Thus, it's this nature of them that makes them simpler and allows me to play more. People that play over 10-12 tables of cash games or deeper-stacked large field tournaments MTTs do give up an edge as a trade-off for volume, but in shallow stack tournaments it's more a matter of how many tables you can handle without timing out.

Multi-tablers give up some in-depth player reads for sure. However, using a HUD, knowing regulars, and still paying attention to action when they can does allow for a decent amount of player reads. Less yes, but that doesn't mean large decrease in their edge or a change in their style of play.
Believe me, when I have 10 or 12 tables and my table is weak-tight, I will play very LAG.

It's all about practice and learning multi-tabling skills. A year ago I never dreamed I could what I do now. It's really not a huge deal, it's just a matter of working at it. I've been playing full time for a while and what I'm doing certainly isn't special. I've just had the time to work on it and made it a priority.

Here are things that help multi-tablers play more without decreasing their edge:
- using sites that are good for muli-tabling
- multi-tabling software
- using HUD stats and getting good at reading player types
- taking notes, going back to look at important hand histories, having a good memory
- having so much experience that spots that used to be tricky in their mind are easier
- having a system for arranging tables, and being able to prioritize and focus on two or three more important tournaments more
- often when you make a deep run in a tournament, it is near the end of your session when you will have less tables open, letting you focus on deep runs better
- managing your schedule and yourself so that you can stay fresh

I've averaged 200 PLO8 MTTs per month and I also play PLO8 SNGs and LO8 cash games. The fact that I also play non-O8 games takes away from this? I'd rather talk about strategy than myself and I never asked to do a well. I don't see how this is self-indulgent if you look at my posts and think about how much time I'm spending along with the fact I'm willing to share anything about my own strategy to anybody who asks. I kinda see it as the opposite.