Hi, I'm new here and just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions on my stakes and results etc.

I play HU and 6-max NLO8 hypers on stars ($3.50-$7.00 buy in)

1) Is my sample size large enough to trust the results?

2) What kind of BR is needed to attempt a move up in stakes?

3) Is it worth seeking out a backer to move up stakes?

4) Whatever comments you have are welcome.

Graph:

Scope #'s:

Thank you to whoever takes the time to respond!

Nice graph, looks consistent.

I'll move this to the O8 forum.

Got a name to go with the graph? Fair chance I've played with you

1. Yea, 2.5K games is a fair sample but obv > 2.5K is desirable.

2. I would recommend 15-20 buy-ins for your desired stake. Probably 15 buy-ins is best because those 6-max hypers are swingier than the 1960s - i.e. enough roll to survive an early downswing but not soooo much that you can lose a fortune in one sitting. So if you wanna play $15s next, I would want $200 min. Not to say you can't do it off 10 buy-ins (which is my usual cut-off) or even 5 buy-ins if you want to gamble a bit.

3. Personally I wouldn't back anybody other than myself in hypers and I haven't seen any other OH8 player get staked JUST for 6-max hypers.

I think you are making a tragic mistake if you believe hyper-turbo to be an acceptable form of poker. I'm a long-term winning player at hypers but you gotta make peace with the fact that this form of poker is as close to roulette as you ever wanna get. Many good players (as in top 10 SC players) have had gargantuan swings in these games and the BEST a relative newbie could ever hope for is an ROI somewhere between 3-10%. As far as I know, I have one of the best ROIs for a reg hyper-player (5% @ $15, 9% @ $30). I would recommend checking out the stats for wadzon, juicy_j_93, salisero, bokkie87, angribob, xQuantum1, to get a feel for what you might expect in the next levels.

The best advice I can offer is to stake YOURSELF in some 18-man turbo SnGs at $7, $15 and $30, alongside the hyper stakes you are currently playing. If you make some $s and are cool with the FACT that you might lose them ALL in one hyper session at higher stakes, regardless of how perfect, or otherwise, you happen to play, then sure, go for it and gl

Sorry if I seem pessimistic btw but I feel most hyper players are entirely ignorant of the game they play.

^^ didn't quite take notice of your 7.8% ROI. You must be one of the best in $3.50 and $7 hypers.

Go for higher stakes, sure, it's your time. Just try your best to have good BR management - keep 10 buy-ins in your account and don't be scared to drop back down to 3.5s and 7s if you get low.

are you alexmck123 or 08Grinder?

I'm MAtt_d_32.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it.

Well, that's not good BRM for hypers, I'd say. The risk of ruin is extremely large with this. having a hundred buy-ins seems conservative, but I hate busting my roll just because of bad BRM.

More like 100-200 buyins, wtf high 10-15 buyins

^^ HYPER-TURBO is a crap-shoot.

OMG I might be a nit but I would LOL all day long if I watched one of you sit with 100-200 BIs at hyper-turbos. I mean, do you guys not realise that on a bad day, you could lose your entire roll in a few hours? Just ask juicy_j or wadzon. Those guys might be prepared to swallow 100-200 BI swings in a session, I AM NOT, and neither is anybody moving up in stakes - if this guy jumps from $3.50 to $15, that's HUGE. To $30 it's monumental, he could easily wipe out lifetime earnings in 2 hours.

With a conservative 15 buy-ins, you lose it all, whatever, re-load and come back another day. If you find a heater, really doesn't matter if you have 10, 100 or 1,000 BIs, you are still gonna make the same money.

Perhaps we differ on BR management. I might only have 15 buy-ins in my POKERSTARS account but I got 100,000 more in my BANK account, which is where it belongs, away from temptation

I am talking about a one-session roll, not a long-term roll. I fully appreciate what you guys are getting at but my position is that hyper-turbos are barely even poker, just pure, unadulterated gambling. If you just wanna gamble, go to the casino, see some gorgeous women, get free drinks and make a night of it with your mates.

It doesn't really make sense to discuss BRM with you, as you have no clue what a bankroll even means. Apparently you mix up stop-losses, your bankroll and you every day bank account. Wise... or not really

Yes I DO mix up my poker BR and my general accounts. I like to start off small with 10-15 BIs for whatever game, be it SnG, cash or MTT, then spend time building it up. Otherwise if I just looked at my available funds, I would enter crazy games all day long like wadzon. How is it you separate bank account from bank roll if you are pro or semi-pro anyways? Aren't they the same thing?

Please go sit in 15s and 30s 6-max hyper with your 100-200 BIs, spend a few days playing, then get back to me and we can compare notes.

I would describe your approach as traditional with a high chance of volatility. My way is ad-hoc and limits volatility to absolute max 50 BIs daily (allowing 3 breaks and 3 re-loads). My losses are small and I have made money every single month on stars, downswings or otherwise. Can u say the same? Can any other leaderboard player at those stakes say the same?

To teach somebody new, sure, perhaps your way is best but I learnt the hard way on stars that discretion is the better part of valour.

The question of BR is very hard to answer since it depends on the reasons you are playing, your skill level and as Hightill points out how much capital you have outside of your BR to back you up.

If for example you are a decent rec player with a paying job and only play for fun and extra income then a strategy of 100 buyins per the level should ensure that you don't go busto (in a poker sense) and can weather most swings provided you are willing to move down if things don't go well.

On the other hand playing for a living with only 100 buy ins and no back up capital would be the most stressful job on earth! To play as a pro you need to be able to suffer months of down-swinging or break-even play and still pay your bills at the end of it all - without busting an artery due to stress Basically there is no upper limit for BR in this situation - especially if you consider BR to be your net worth.

Ultimately the only person who has all the necessary information to determine your own BR requirements is you!

Good luck figuring it out and GL moving up - c ya at the tables.

Bob

^^ Yea + 1 to calm, clear-headed Bob

wtf, why is my approach with higher variance than yours? that's just bull****, sorry. You can have all your poker bankroll on stars and still play exactly the same strategy as yours. that has nothing to do with BRM, but with stop-losses... Yeah, you apparantly need a very good strategy from preventing you to spew around.

And I'm no pro, no semi-pro, no anything. I have a life bankroll and a poker bankroll which sometimes supports my life bankroll to buy nice things for me or others.

my profit on hypers $30.00 NL Omaha H/L [Hyper-Turbo] 3701 $0.79 3% $2,920.74
but
swings in hypers on one picture
1.6k sng,130bi

rhats painful..


did you try the 15s now matt?

I know you hate me for a comment I made about freedom of speech, democracy, taxes and the burka but try to put that to one side.

You are a supernova player, correct? Therefore you have plenty of XP. IMHO you can't be supernova without being at least semi-pro. When you have $x thousands in your account, do you play all the same games exactly the same way as when you have, say, $500? I doubt it.

I use my strategy to stop me gambling/spewing, however you choose to describe it. When I have $x thousands I play $100 hypers, $3/6 NL and higher and as you know, as premove showed above, volatility can be high. Catch a downswing and all the games I like to play (like $15 and $30 SnGs, low-mid cash, $55 MTTs etc) become entirely meaningless.

I honestly don't care about the money, I just want to WIN and play well, not chase fame and fortune. For me that's best achieved by having a smallish on-site BR and a large off-site BR. This might sound strange, but I don't actually like to "gamble" as such when playing cards.

No I'm likely going to stay at my current stakes until I'm able to build a bigger roll.

Thanks for all the responses everyone. Interesting thoughts and a lot of different things to consider.

One more question - what do you guys do with your FPPs?

It doesn't matter how you call it: what you do is putting a stop-loss and at the same time buy-in restrictions in place. I'm sorry, and I'm not mad or anything, but you are not talking about a bankroll or the management of it.

And thanks for the supernova I'm far from it as I don't play regularly...

OK so this should definitively answer your questions about BR for 6-max hyper, $15-100. We are assuming btw that you are a good player and can hold your own against nit and aggro-fish alike, even at higher stakes.



Above is hyper graph for juicy_j_93, which he posted himself in another thread. He said it was his total hyper-graph so I will assume this is all games from $7-100. Biggest down-swing here is ~ $7K. Note that JJ is a top-ranked player.



Above is total SnG graph for wadzon. This includes 18-man turbo (which he has been playing with me recently during latest downswing) but vast majority are 6-max hypers, $7-$500, mostly $15-100 (guestimate). Here the biggest down-swing is ~ $12K.



Above is my graph for all hyper games, vast majority $7-$30. Biggest down-swing ~ $1,700 (mostly playing $60 and $100 where I got raped by the 2 position-stealers above + lukro8). Biggest down-swing playing $7-30, ~ $1K.

Conclusion:

Min BR required for $7-30 is $1,000*. Likely BR required is $3,000**. Max BR required is $10,000***

* - using BR strategy I used
** - taking roughly half of JJ's biggest down-swing as he would sit for long sessions and play > $30
*** - if you're Russian.

@ Brunolf - You have been at tables with me and shown supernova.

@Matt - I hope wadzon has a Porsche Cayman S by now but somehow I doubt it.

I use my FPP for Sunday Storm sats. If you have a few K points, it's relatively straight forward to turn that into a hundred tourney $s or more. I've also bought a few things in the VIP store like a watch, sunglasses etc.

I would call that impossible, trust me. Lifetime VPPs less than 50k make that highly unlikely.

Play scoops & other events.

yeah, using them for more satellites is just costing you precious time, where you could make more money in your preferred game. Some FFP-qualifiers have overlays, though. Obviously, ther eit is a different story.

If you reach supernova you can get 1600$ for 100 000 points which is good value. Before reaching supernova I used to use them on fpp hyper sats but as brunolf mentioned time is definitely a factor to consider with fpp sats.