Brunolfs views are respected ... i dont think the same can be said of yours, why dont u go play some cash and lose some more...

Having a hard time comprehending the genius of the interference, the purpose and result...

"Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?"

When we transitioned from 20-50bb + 50-100bb tables to 40-100bb tables in early 2011, we also planned to make the same change to NLO/8 tables, but we received pushback from a large number of NLO/8 players at that time.

However, we're happy to look back into the situation now that some time has passed and the situation may be different.

We're also not likely to make large changes to a game's structure midway through the year, unless we announced the change in advance.

Table Speeds & Multi Tabling
We are unlikely to raise the time to act in our Real Money games beyond what we currently offer.

One of our most frequent player complaints from players who play fewer tables is that they have to constantly wait on people whom they perceive as playing too many tables.

As such, we have made several changes over the past year to improve the situation. One of these changes is that we lower the Table Cap of players who are playing too slowly and raise the Table Cap of players who demonstrate they can play quickly while playing a large number of tables.

The other major change is that we lowered the amount of time a player is allowed to make a decision in an unraised pot preflop.

What Zoom games specifically do you want to see?

Keep in mind Zoom pools provide the best experience when there are a lot of players in the pool, and splitting liquidity across too many pools at games like O/8 where there are fewer players is a concern.

One big issue I see with switching to a time based system for Mixed Games is that angleshooting and stalling will become widespread for what I see as a fairly limited improvement for most players.

PS-BryanS is active in the thread I linked below, and he's a much better person with which to discuss MTT offerings.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/61...hread-1283667/

There is no point to raise buyins so couple of highrollers could play deeper, if they want bigger games there are some higher games available.
Traffic at o8 is slow enough if you raise BI im sure it will just chase new players away. Im sure u agree its better to listen what people want and need not two or three players.

While I can't comment much more specifically, we do keep a close eye on the effect of rake on our various game types and make adjustments when we consider it to be appropriate.

Rake is also a subject we discuss quite heavily in Player Meetings. For example, one outcome of the PLO meetings this year was that we lowered rake at all Micro Stakes, Big Bet Omaha games, including Omaha Hi/Lo.

Mond, knock it off. If you continue to flood this thread with childish insulting condescending posts, Nick is going to lose interest very quickly.

No. For some absurd reason NLO8 highest limit is 600; so we "highrollers" (?) can't play higher than that. And it's not like we are asking the min buy-in to be 250 bigs (ie deep). 40 big blinds is still ridiculously shallow, but at least is a lot better than 20 bigs.

It seems mid stakes players dont play zoom o8 for some reason. There are only low zoom tables running so maybe PS should try 5 card O8 lower stakes zoom game. Why isnt there any 5o8 lower tables? Im sure people would like to play for example 0.05/0.10.

"Highroller" was a little joke of mine. But lets be honest you couldnt handle the heat. You guys are already complaining at lower limits like 400 and 600. There is always somebody whos wining about how other "fish" always rivers them or something like that. Imagine what happens when you gamble for lets say 5000 $ every third hand. Im sure PS can add you limits like 1000 or 2000 but I say its too much of a bingo. Lets hope PS increases NLO8 limits and Im sure it will be entertaining to watch.

If you increase the size of the buttons and slider everything will go a lot faster (as demonstated by the competition).

No, he is the one that is boycotting our favorite games and refuses to answer simple questions. This was almost 4 years ago and we haven't moved one step since:


We still have 7 times more PLO8 as NLO8 MTTs and this hurts Omaha traffic in cash games also. Not only we suffer from this, so does your department.

I've never ever complained about a river or ever called someone a fish or whatever. I don't tap de glass like others do. I thinks it's beyond idiotic to do so. Anyway, i think if a given player can "handle the heat" or not is not your or Pokerstars or anyones business other than said player's. So i'm not sure i get your point.

If there is demand to add bigger limits for NLO8 tables, as it surely is, i really don't see any logical reason for not providing those games. More so considering that they would definitely run pretty much all the time.

i would prefer that pokerstars keeps 20-100bb tables or they keep them and add deep tables as well. everyone can choose then.

90% of my time I spend at fixed limit omaha8 tables, and would like to address a couple of issues.

1. I don't really understand why, but it seems 3/6 games of LO8 are raked more heavily that 2/4 (based on my own ~20k samples with similar stats and winrates). Could you please check if this is really the case, or just a distortion due to a small sample size.

2. Really hate the situation when people just massively sit out at 6max tables for long periods of time. Recreational players taking a look at the lobby could jump in if there was a sit available, but are unlikely to join the waiting list at the (seemingly) full table. Could you please force people out for missing three rounds of blinds regardless of the waiting list? Should be much shorter (perhaps time based) for the full ring.

Similar question. When I try to start a new table, from time to time someone joins it and sits out waiting for the third player or just denying me a potentially good heads up match. Can we do anything about it? I just don't like the idea of people sitting at the table without intention to play right away.

General notes

Really I don't see any huge problems with current LO8 environment, except for rake being quite high (6-7 bb/100 for 2/4-5/10 in a split pot limit game sounds harsh to me), but if I was asked to choose between rake reduction AND seeing new faces in the game, I'd always vote for the latter.

I really want to see more advertisement of Omaha Hi-Lo around. Isildur1 does great job, of course, but he doesn't play on Stars anymore. Interviews with top winners, game-based promotions, game-based opt-in VPP leaderboards with prizes, some incentive for table starters, another PokerStars Online Pro who plays LO8 or mixed games (like CallawayStar or Enon, to name a couple of strong respectable grinders) - that would be great.

There wasnt any point just saying that I have seen higher regulars like kuhns, exit and silent complaining and wining many times.
My point is that 600 seems to be perfect limit for most higher players and you just want to bully smaller rolled players around. I hope there will be higher limits so players like yourself can play as deep as you want.
Theres something for Pokerstars to think about, players have a need for higher limit NLO8 tables.

I agree.

Great ideas to advertise O8. There should be one Team online member who plays only O8 and all those promotions and VVP leaderboards would be nice. Pokerstars needs somebody like isildur to advertise the game.

hello talonchick, welcome to the team

Also, my view of why Stars should bother about limit omaha hi-lo.

For those poker fans who took the effort to learn the rules, this game has tremendous potential. First and most important of all, this is a game where you can get away with high VPIP. I saw winning regulars at 6-max table with VPIP about 60. No other poker variant except Open Faced Chinese gives you so much constant action. You can also play a lot of postflop, as it is a fixed limit game, and calling on the flop is so cheap. There is a lot of excitement in bluffing and bluff catching on the river with pot odds like 1 to 12, people just love to call with AQ-high in omaha and rake a decent pot. Omaha 8 was so popular in Russia (when offline poker was legal) exactly because you can fold zero hands overnight and still book a good profit. There were famous fish vs. pro no-look HU matches (when the fish didn't look at his cards until river), etc. A lot of action.

There is so much fun to this game, and even more so because nobody really knows how to play it correctly. Winning regulars have highly diverse styles and approaches to many situations, even the most simple ones like flop cbet. There are no quality videos and no quality books about this game (with all due respect to Ray Zee and Mark Gregorich, the game has evolved a lot in the last decade), so everybody is in the same situation - you learn through trial, error and observation. And sometimes math, although there are very few tools outside PPT that can be of any help for a LO8 student.

The benefits for good players are that these game is actually very deep. The winrates are much much higher in limit omaha than in limit holdem, and a player who works really hard (myself excluded, I'm too lazy) AND in the right direction, can expect a much higher rise compared to NLHE or PLO.

I don't have to mention that this year's biggest winner online made all his money exclusively in omaha 8, or do I?

I am sure a film about her helped to boost the popularity of the game! But Adrienne doesn't seem ready to do crazy things (due to her bankroll considerations I assume) to attract more attention to the game, like Isildur or, say, Sauce with WCGRider.

Nope. She plays too short sessions and not high enough to entertain people. O8 needs really big names like Isildur, Hansen or somebody who really puts in some volume. I mean some low stakes SNE who plays lot of o8 to give players motivation that they can also achive this.

Thanks Brunolf

More seriously, I am happy to hear any suggestions people have to increase popularity of limit O8, it is certainly something I talk about and try to do.

wonder what kind of note you have on me saw my name in the TeamOnline week video you shot!

Don't really know how to work on the popularity. one idea maybe: get on the pokerstars live webcast for a tour stop of Pokerstars where you have some free time... maybe PCA? They also had some late day coverage of a PLO tourney of an EPT stop. Just an idea, don't know how many people they reach during these times.