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Old 08-09-2012, 11:28 AM   #1
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Diamond PLO8 Tourney: AAxx in Pos Vs guy who never folds to Cbets

Villian is playing 34/10/7 over 51 hands (very short sample), but the guys never folds to Cbets & C/R's 50% of the time over 12 hands.
Can I ever fold this given his stats & his range here?
If so was calling on the flop correct giving him a chance to stack off with his weaker hands?


    Poker Stars, $15 Buy-in (30/60 blinds) Pot Limit Omaha H/L Tournament, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13696732

    BTN: 607 (10.1 bb)
    SB: 1,666 (27.8 bb)
    BB: 1,945 (32.4 bb)
    MP: 3,477 (58 bb)
    Hero (CO): 5,060 (84.3 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with A 8 2 A
    MP calls 60, Hero raises to 210, 3 folds, MP calls 150

    Flop: (510) 4 6 4 (2 players)
    MP checks, Hero bets 390, MP raises to 1,020, Hero calls 630

    Turn: (2,550) 9 (2 players)
    MP bets 2,247 and is all-in, Hero calls 2,247

    River: (7,044) T (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:



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    Old 08-09-2012, 12:00 PM   #2
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    Re: PLO8 Tourney: AAxx in Pos Vs guy who never folds to Cbets

    12 hand stats are basically worthless as a sample

    in a vacuum flop is a b/f so aggainst a really aggro player you can think about checking back for pot control, not a lot of turn cards we don't like
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    Old 08-09-2012, 12:19 PM   #3
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    Re: PLO8 Tourney: AAxx in Pos Vs guy who never folds to Cbets

    +1
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    Old 08-10-2012, 12:27 AM   #4
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    Re: PLO8 Tourney: AAxx in Pos Vs guy who never folds to Cbets

    34/10/7 says that he's not raising a lot of "good" hands, pre. Is that just from the earlier rounds of this tournament though (where everyone is deeper)?

    If he was like 55/10/7 and aggro. post, I'd bet/shove (but I'd bet 200, at most). But with those stats. a significant amount of his limp/call range is going to have a lot of equity on this flop, and a non-trivial amount will have a 4. So calling down and losing 2k seems like more fun than losing 3.25k (can maybe even fold river, maybe). Plus if a non-2 low hits it's easy to get most of the money in anyway.

    There's no way b/c is better than b/r, on flop, and while b/f is certainly better here I'm not sure how much I can do that with AA2 (and I'm suspicious of monikrazy saying it's good HU vs. aggro. villain, but he might just be playing a lot better villains than I do).
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    Old 08-10-2012, 03:28 AM   #5
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    Re: PLO8 Tourney: AAxx in Pos Vs guy who never folds to Cbets

    you played it good except fold to the flop raise.
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    Old 08-10-2012, 09:28 AM   #6
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    Re: PLO8 Tourney: AAxx in Pos Vs guy who never folds to Cbets

    I would tend to check the flop here actually. The reason is that if he has a 4 (or 66) he will check-raise you which is pretty sick for your hand. But if he does not have a 4 you are miles ahead, perhaps you will turn a low and 3/4 or scoop him, and/or induce some turn and river action.

    Stacks are small enough that starting to build a pot on the flop is not a concern, you can get his stack in on the turn and river if you're ahead.
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    Old 08-10-2012, 03:50 PM   #7
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    Re: PLO8 Tourney: AAxx in Pos Vs guy who never folds to Cbets

    whoever checks this flop behind probably doesn't value bet enough... if you stopped before your flop action and asked what you should do, people would almost surely be telling you: "value bet!". you know how people are. they're results oriented. they see you got raised and faced a tough decision, and they automatically suggest making a weak check. that's not pot control. that's money hating. next time, consider stopping before every decision you made that you want feedback on.

    ...but I would bet a little less, maybe 300. it's a paired rainbow board played in a tournament... no need to bet big.

    if the flop call is close, it means that you should probably have a plan to fold some of the worst turns to a near pot sized all in bet. 9d isn't a good card at all.

    I actually think that bet/calling flop was fine. also note that villian didn't make such a large raise.
    however, when I call the flop raise, i'm already prepared for the all in bet on the turn.
    which turn cards am I calling an all in bet, and which am I folding?

    I call any A, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8 and heart
    that's 2+4+2+4+4+3+6=25 cards out of 45. not enough.
    let's also call any offsuit 9, T and J
    that's 1+1+1=3 more, or 28 total.

    maybe a few more:
    let's add the offsuit Q, the 9s, the Ts and the Js (hero has the As, somewhat unlikely villian's range likes a spade).
    that's 4 more. 32 total out of 45.

    I especially don't like kings or to some extent queens. people play hands with big pairs and raise these flops with AQQ3 and KK32. why? I don't know, maybe because other people like bet/folding AA2 like it's nothing...

    which cards am I folding, then? 3 kings, 2 queens, 1 jack, 1 ten, 1 nine, 2 sixes and 3 deuces. that's 13 cards total. quick check: 32+13=45. that's good.

    anyway, I think calling turn 32 times out of 45 is close enough to optimal, so that villian won't be correct to profitably check/raise flop and shove turn on you too often...

    you probably call too much if you include the 9d, but it's close...
    but don't worry, if it's a mistake, it's a small one, unlike bet/folding AA2 to a small check/raise with position (people probably think position is irrelevant at this point, incorrectly assuming that villian shoves the turn 100% of the time).
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    Old 08-10-2012, 04:06 PM   #8
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    Re: PLO8 Tourney: AAxx in Pos Vs guy who never folds to Cbets

    Meh, there's not much value if he folds to our c-bet. Check behind, let him bluff whatever, call turn, whale river. If he checks again, we can value bet turn and it looks more like a steal so maybe we get called lighter there. I can get behind b/f being sub-optimal, but I'm not convinced b/c > checking behind and playing the turn IP.
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