Twice in my last session I was dealth KsKd2s3d on the button five-handed and I have no idea what the book is on this. CO opened (stacks 100BB). He was opening 60%+ in late position. Both blinds were highly likely to call; we have had a lot of familyish pots with one raise but comparatively little three-betting pre. CO was highly likely to c-bet any flop.

Am I supposed to three-bet pre to isolate the CO (if blinds come along, I know I have to flop pretty perfect)? Five-handed in position, this hand seems too good to fold, maybe too bad to 3-bet, and really hard to make decent money with on a call.

Just call obviously, you have position, use it instead of committing preflop. Your hand is worse than Axxx; you've got to either flop at least the nut low draw or a king.

a 3-bet is probably more optimal, given the situation (BTN vs wide CO open).
if you feel more comfortable flatting, that's fine too.

Either way imo. I think it can play ok multiway in position or HU with initiative.

Not always. Although worse than AXXX for all in equity, KK has great equity on a lot of random boards and when an A does hit, like you said often you have nut low potential and villains can't play Axxx always so well. I just don't think either can be optimal, but vs. this general player type neither would be in error. Optimal could only start to be defined by other individual factors.

3 bet ISO is way better

I wasn't sure if kittens had typo'd, but now someone "confirms" this ...

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
Kx3xKy2y	54.34%	230,644	340,097	2,190	135,934	6,897
A	45.66%	176,753	257,713	2,190	174,377	6,897

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
Kx3xKy2y	52.66%	191,028	367,113	34,386	0	110,360
AQ23	47.34%	130,363	198,501	34,386	209,103	110,360

...KK32ss is worth 3betting, esp. with position, KK32ds is pretty much the nuts.
We aren't even that bad vs. random AA:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
Kx3xKy2y	36.95%	145,793	199,618	697	134,732	3,665
AA	63.05%	301,023	399,685	697	148,653	3,665

^^^ Nice. I was thinking it was flipped(47%) vs. A plus 3 randoms.

Thanks for all of the replies. IRL, isolating seemed like the right thing to do, especially where a three-bet has only been a monster, and villain is going to assume I have an ace anyway (i.e. he is expecting me to c-bet flops with an ace anyway).

I think it's the best aceless hand you can be dealt. At least I cannot think of a better one. (But you still need a favorable board). How best to play it is opponent, situation, and Hero dependent.

Hard to answer.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
KsKd2s3d	63.16%	296,021	379,977	3,615	173,191	14,419
****	36.84%	139,315	216,408	3,615	117,706	14,419

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
KsKd2s3d	36.39%	132,763	205,349	4,405	118,711	29,623
****	21.19%	60,755	125,773	9,827	66,825	18,561
****	21.24%	60,849	126,260	9,830	66,813	18,404
****	21.18%	60,599	125,897	9,865	66,836	18,270

As you can see, you're more likely to win against one opponent (63:37), but against three opponents (36:64), although you're more likely to lose, you also collect three times as much when you win.

When you bet 100 and lose, it doesn't matter if you have one opponent or three. (Either way you lose 100). But when you bet 100 and win, you win 300 against three opponents and only win 100 against one opponent.

one opponent:
0.6316*1-0.3684*1=+0.2632

three opponents:
0.3639*3-0.6361*1=+0.4556

So if the blinds play poorly and are likely to continue to showdown once they're hooked, you do better by keeping them in the pot. But if anyone without a good fit with the flop folds after the flop, leaving Hero facing the one opponent with the best fit on the flop, then Hero does better by pushing the blinds out of the pot before the flop.

Can you see that the decision depends as much on how well the blinds play as how well CO plays? But the decision is also dependent on how well you, yourself, play against one opponent as compared to against three opponents. If you, yourself, play poorly against three opponents, then try to isolate. Do what works best for you against these opponents.

You haven't told us anything about how well the blinds play or how tight the play becomes after the flop.

In my humble opinion, you're not "supposed" to do anything. What to do is situation, opponent, and Hero dependent.

I haven't read the other responses. It's my custom to answer without reading the other responses and then look to see what others have written.

Buzz

So the question that no one is asking is this: What are you trying to accomplish?

If you want to win a small pot and take the dead money then maybe three betting is best. But have you ever seen people fold preflop in o8? I havent..

If they dont fold you are stuck with a mediocre hand in a bloated multi-way pot. With probably more than one player with Ax little and now you have two outs to a low that maybe not unique and two outs for a set and still may chop the pot.


So I would say that the better play is the keep to pot small preflop, flop either a king or the nut low and then go from there. Win either a big pot by flopping a big hand like a set and a low draw on a Kxx flop or half a big pot when it comes Axx.

Or get out cheap if it comes AQ9 or something like that..

Wendy

If we 3-bet, its likely to be HU and not multiway. And we'd be up against a wide range with a lot more worse lows than you're thinking. Not saying limping isn't better, only that your assumptions are incorrect.

if they call our 3bet with their entire CO's opening range, then at least we got ourselves some juice:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

518,142 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
30%	44.92%	149,371	216,319	4,527	148,662	12,483
KK32$ds	55.08%	202,353	297,296	4,527	112,689	12,483

I may be wrong on the analysis above but I dont think I am getting it heads up always with one person. That is dependent on a bunch of things (raise pre and my three bet amount, players tendencies etc...).

So then my next question is if I do get it heads up what is the range of the player who is calling my three bet? Does my hand play well against that?

I certainly dont think they have a random hand.. More likely A2-A5 probably suited with at least one back up little card..

Given this range if they flop any kind of low draw you are now just flipping post flop against their range AND if they happen to have one nut flush draw I am a dog..

I dont like these kind of situations and I guess I dont understand why anyone else would either. Maybe I should be happy?!?

I have seen players call almost 30-40% of their stack to see a flop in PLO8.. You WANT TO HAVE THE NUTS on the river..

guess I just dont like flipping..

Wendy

1) preflop 3-betting is a weapon we should have and know how to use.

2) we can't just 3-bet AA.

therefore - we need to find hands and spots that would make 3-betting a logical play - 3-betting a two way hand with obvious high potential on the BTN vs a wide CO open is very logical.

now listen to this:

our hand lacks nut potential which makes 3-betting even more logical as without nut potential we don't hurt our implied odds by 3-betting.

all in all, very good spot for a 3-bet, IMO (...and I actually flat a ton in this game...)