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Old 07-28-2012, 09:34 PM   #1
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Diamond Please Critique My Play on this Live PLO8 Hand

$1-2 PLO8 Live Game. $5 bring in.
Villain 1 has $800
Hero has $700
Villain 2 has $600

Preflop:
Villain 1 calls; action on Hero who has 2236 with 2 diamonds
Fold, Call or Raise?
Hero calls. Villain 2 makes it $15. SB and BB call. Villain 1 calls. $65 in pot.
Fold. Call or Raise?
Hero calls.
Flop is A25 rainbow, no diamonds ($75 in pot).
Check. Check.
Check or Bet?
Hero bets $75. Only Villains 2 and 1 call.
Turn is 6 (rainbow) $225 in pot.
Villain 1 checks.
Check or Bet?
Hero bets $225.
Villain 2 calls. Villain 1 hesitates, then calls.
River is Jack ($675 in pot)
Villain 1 checks.
Check or Bet?
Hero checks.
Villain 2 bets $200
Villain 1 hesitates, then calls. $1075 in pot.
Fold, Check or Raise?
Hero calls.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:33 PM   #2
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Re: Please Critique My Play on this Live PLO8 Hand

Looks like villan 2 should only be able to pot to $9 not $15 pre but w.e. You are so super deep and I'd much rather have something like 2346 so I fold 2236, its really not that strong and I don't see you winning too many big pots with it. It's almost fairly certain that one of your opponents has 34 so fold river.
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Old 07-28-2012, 11:48 PM   #3
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Re: Please Critique My Play on this Live PLO8 Hand

Pair of twos with 3-6 as side cards is not only largely useless but has the potential to cause you problems. I would fold pre.
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Old 07-29-2012, 02:18 AM   #4
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Re: Please Critique My Play on this Live PLO8 Hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpDitka View Post
Looks like villan 2 should only be able to pot to $9 not $15 pre but w.e.
Not to nit-pick, but in a live 1/2/5 game, the blinds are usually counted as being $5 for purposes of pre-flop PSB's. $15, after a limp, sounds like a valid raise...
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Old 07-29-2012, 02:44 AM   #5
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Re: Please Critique My Play on this Live PLO8 Hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Orange View Post
$1-2 PLO8 Live Game. $5 bring in.
Villain 1 has $800
Hero has $700
Villain 2 has $600

Preflop:
Villain 1 calls; action on Hero who has 2236 with 2 diamonds
Fold, Call or Raise?
I'm only a fan of 23 hands if it has been folded to me and I can open-limp, as that indicates aces are still in the deck. Over-limping never seems to work out for me, particularly when the other two cards don't work well with the 23. We're hoping to spike an ace as part of a low flop, and/or a 45x flop.
Quote:
Hero calls. Villain 2 makes it $15. SB and BB call. Villain 1 calls. $65 in pot.
Fold. Call or Raise?
For $10 more, I have to see the flop now.
Quote:
Hero calls.
Flop is A25 rainbow, no diamonds ($75 in pot).
Check. Check.
Check or Bet?
This flop makes me wince as we've got bottom set which is usually bad news in Omaha, especially multi-way. I'm probably checking and only calling the smallest of bets.
Quote:
Hero bets $75. Only Villains 2 and 1 call.
Turn is 6 (rainbow) $225 in pot.
Villain 1 checks.
Check or Bet?
You had two come along. There's a good chance someone has you dominated but wants to let you hang yourself/ensure the board doesn't pair before stacking off.
Quote:
Hero bets $225.
Villain 2 calls. Villain 1 hesitates, then calls.
River is Jack ($675 in pot)
Villain 1 checks.
Check or Bet?
bleh. TWO players called $600 worth of bets on the flop and turn. It might be time to shut it down as the river changed approximately nothing.
Quote:

Hero checks.
Villain 2 bets $200
Villain 1 hesitates, then calls. $1075 in pot.

Fold, Check or Raise?
FOLD. There's a bet and a call; what do you think you beat here? In all likelihood, your only chance is that one of them (V1?) flopped top two pair and you're taking the high half, while V2 is leading out with something like 2357, figuring his weird low must be good.
Quote:
Hero calls.
OTOH, if I'm V2 and was hold 34xx, I probably play it the same, letting you hang yourself until the river, where you don't cooperate, spurring me to make a small value bet.
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:00 AM   #6
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Re: Please Critique My Play on this Live PLO8 Hand

Thanks, guys. Yes, $15 is a legal raise when the bring-in is $5.

And, yes, Villain 2 did indeed had 3-4 (actually, A347) and was stringing me along. I've been trying to rationalize my play by thinking "If I was beat, someone would have raised me" and by putting the Villain 2 on AA, but your analysis is much appreciated.

By the way, Villain 1 called all the way with a set of 5's and an awful low. As he and I show, play really is that bad at some live PLO8 games.
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRGCardinal View Post
Not to nit-pick, but in a live 1/2/5 game, the blinds are usually counted as being $5 for purposes of pre-flop PSB's. $15, after a limp, sounds like a valid raise...
Ahh didn't see the $5 bring in. God this game looks awesome, why can't we have games like this around me
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Old 07-29-2012, 03:38 PM   #8
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Re: Please Critique My Play on this Live PLO8 Hand

Flop bet is a bit of an overplay into 4 players.
Turn bet is insanely over aggro, and even worse this is a rare spot where you could get called by a higher set (AA3x, 553x) on a wheel board.
River is snap fold.
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:28 PM   #9
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Re: Please Critique My Play on this Live PLO8 Hand

Pre is fine. Flop, turn and river are increasingly worse and all 3 are burning money. You can check sometimes you know
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:10 AM   #10
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Re: Please Critique My Play on this Live PLO8 Hand

you should have dumped it after the flop (your hand, not your stack)
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:06 PM   #11
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Re: Please Critique My Play on this Live PLO8 Hand

2236 is a speculative late position hand and not very good. Though, I feel the 6 is an underrated card as a backup (making a 6-high str8 w/nut low is a great way to 3/4 someone who's willing to put it all in w/the wheel). Fold pre flop. After the flop you have a set and 2nd low, but your high hand loses to nut low. Having a high hand that loses to nut low is a great excuse to fold. Your redraw is very vulnerable as well and for only half the pot.

If there's a called bet on that flop and there isn't a wheel out there you're in the best PLO8 game ever. If your hand is good either way it would likely get checked all the way through to the river. Or a bet would win uncontested (though to bet you should have position and you don't). You're drawing to a 4 for 3/4 of the pot and at least one 4 is already out. You need a 2 for quads (1/2 the pot), but that's probably in someone's had, too.

BTW: If someone has the wheel here there's no need to raise unless they have redraws and think someone else has a wheel w/o redraws. If they think someone doesn't have a wheel they may want to string them along, but more likely they don't have redraws and don't love their hand!

Last edited by Hugh_G_Johnson; 07-30-2012 at 08:11 PM. Reason: grammar, because very important it is.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:12 PM   #12
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Re: Please Critique My Play on this Live PLO8 Hand

I'm OK with calling pre, it's not a great hand but we have position on Villain 1 and the blinds.

On the flop, if they have 43xx then your spot is dangerous but not fatal (you can catch a 4 or a boat), and if they don't have 43xx then your set plus second-nut-low is a monster.

I'd definitely check the flop for pot control. I don't see any reason to bet. There's no way you will make a better hand fold. There might be some worse hands that call (other sets, other 36xx hands, or people who don't know what they're doing) but you have to balance this against the risk of building a big pot when someone else did flop a wheel.

Having bet the flop and got called, you definitely have to check the turn, for much the same reasons. You're quite happy only getting 1 value street from worse hands, if it means you only give up 1 value street to better hands.

I'm not sure why you are betting, maybe if you try to explain it in your own words it would clarify things for you

As played, on the river you still have the second nut low, I think this is a spot for the crying call. Villain 1 probably has 34xx, but you should call on the chance that he was calling along with some rubbish. (You may get 2/3 or 3/4 if nobody has 34xx!)
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