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Old 07-16-2012, 10:46 AM   #1
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Diamond PL10: interesting turn card out of position

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha H/L Cash, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13536012

SB: $3.81 (38.1 bb)
BB: $9.26 (92.6 bb)
UTG+2: $5.75 (57.5 bb)
MP1: $29.85 (298.5 bb)
MP2: $11.48 (114.8 bb)
MP3: $5.97 (59.7 bb)
Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $13.29 (132.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A 4 8 J
2 folds, MP2 calls $0.10, MP3 folds, Hero raises to $0.45, BTN calls $0.45, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.50) J 2 4 (3 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $1.25, BTN calls $1.25, MP2 folds

Turn: ($4) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.30, Hero raises to $7.72

I guess both preflop and flop are close at best. no wonder I found myself in this spot on the turn... well, interesting turn card for sure.
I thought that a bet would lead villian to fold a dominated range, call with a range against which i'd have a tough river decision. finally, if he raises, i'm obviously crushed and can't even fold...

I thought that a check/decide line may actually have more value (induce bets from all kinds of stuff) and less peels (in case I end up check/raising).

Once he bet small, I prayed it meant weakness (doesn't have to be the case, I don't know...) and practically got everything in...

any suggestions...?
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:49 AM   #2
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

Wp.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:21 PM   #3
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

+1
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:24 PM   #4
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

I'd raise a bit less, raising to $5 is plenty to rep a wheel

Are you calling if he reraises?
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:52 PM   #5
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittens View Post
I'd raise a bit less, raising to $5 is plenty to rep a wheel

Are you calling if he reraises?
Given its 58c, yes.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:06 AM   #6
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

i'm not raise/folding more than half my stack with equity.
if i'm supposed to, i'm not raising in the first place.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:07 AM   #7
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

c/r is awful - c/c is standard and correct. You make it very easy for him by C/Ring - folds losers calls winners
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:26 AM   #8
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

And then what on a river blank? You c/c again? Meh, c/r is fine, you just have to c/r with A5 as well.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:37 AM   #9
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen View Post
c/r is awful - c/c is standard and correct. You make it very easy for him by C/Ring - folds losers calls winners
? He has A8 for a low and it's going to be tough for that to improve to be anything more than, at best, a split of the low. What if he gets the bettor to fold a better low?
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:46 AM   #10
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

The chk raise has totally committed your stack and made it super easy for the guy with a wheel or 56 to stack unless you bink the river for a chop.

You havnt said much about villain but generally hes betting str8's or hand that has a3,6,7 type hands to try and take the pot. Sometimes even high only hands.

againt most villains i think check/calling and evaluating(mostly calling) river is better. You have your nut spade outs as well which makes this pretty much the same decsion for any type of villain. You don't want to get blown off turn by betting.

Even if you check raises smaller as to not committ yourself but look strong your only getting a6, a7 sets(unlikely) to fold whom you want to fold and anything that calls/gets it in your between bad shape and screwed shape. Doesnt seem worth it to me.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:57 AM   #11
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

He has A5 or 65 much more often then he was betting to fold. You can call spade, 5 or full boat if he bets again. If you miss no biggie, hand isn't that great.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:38 PM   #12
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

Not check-raising the turn is just super-weak imo. Our hand and the stacks are perfect for that play, and him often having A5 or 56 is nonsense.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:00 PM   #13
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen View Post
He has A5 or 65 much more often then he was betting to fold. You can call spade, 5 or full boat if he bets again. If you miss no biggie, hand isn't that great.
At this stake, I don't think you can say this without a specific read on the player. More likely IMO that the weak bet is consistent with a weak hand and a weak player, although of course not impossible he shows up with A5 or 56 here, and given the stake he may be more likely to have played some crappy A5xx hand than at a higher stake.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:43 PM   #14
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

The point is that he will fold worse and call better. The only hand that you really want a fold from is A6 anyway. You are turning a hand with a fair amount of showdown/improvement value into a bluff.

Not to mention Nobody at low stakes is floating a random Draw then bluffing twice vs cks.
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Old 07-18-2012, 05:11 PM   #15
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Re: PL10: interesting turn card out of position

on the turn - c/c > b/f >> c/f >> b/c >>>>>> c/r

turning this hand into a bluff is not even close to optimal. check raise turn to rep a wheel, what??? just get to showdown if its cheap. or keep trying to blow people out of pots on X234 boards with A8 lows and see what it does for your winrate.
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