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Omahaha's well Omahaha's well

08-27-2014 , 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahaha
I think you hit the nail on the head here especially when it comes to final table play. Of course it all depends so much on opponents style and chip stacks. I can think of a few examples recently where on two different final tables I have played a hand like Aj26 as the nuts or an easy fold to an open both with 4 players left. I think this is why I sometime have trouble answering generic hand questions in threads in this forum is everything tends to be game flow driven and without all the information about players and the way they are playing an answer can become meaningless.



Again this is very context driven as if I feel someone is getting out of line I may shove/ raise any four cards. However their are certain spots where we know we will never be better than a 55/45 and probably often behind and we are just not profiting enough from getting it all in the long run to justify it.

As an example we have 25bb with 14 players left in a nlo8 mtt that pays 7. A fairly solid reg opens UTG for a 2.5-3* blind raise he has us covered but not by much. We look down and see a hand like aq34 ds/ak55/at26 ds or something of this nature where we could well be marginally ahead but are mostly flipping or a little way behind. There is very little sense in shoving here without a solid raise as although we may have a good shot at doubling up which would put us in a commanding position and mathematically with the blinds and even possibly antis we may be getting decent odds for a call we are giving up our skill edge to variance where if patient we could find a much better spot. Obviously if we are short we could potentially take a flip with any of these hands and have decent equity especially if there is a decent amount dead money in the pot.

On the flips side of this I see people making awful folds time and time again with weak holdings that contain the possibility of a low or a high when they are short and the blinds /antis and pot odds make it a no brainer to call. People generally do not pay enough attention to pot size relative to stack size.
I posted this before my morning caffeine hit took effect should read:

As an example we have 25bb with 14 players left in a nlo8 mtt that pays 7. A fairly solid reg opens UTG for a 2.5-3* blind raise he has us covered but not by much. We look down and see a hand like aq34 ds/ak55/at26 ds or something of this nature where we could well be marginally ahead but are mostly flipping or a little way behind. There is very little sense in shoving here without a solid read that villain is getting out of line as although we may have a good shot at doubling up which would put us in a commanding position and mathematically with the blinds and even possibly antis we may be getting decent odds for if we get it all in we are giving up our skill edge to variance where if patient we could find a much better spot. Obviously if we are short we could potentially take a flip with any of these hands and have decent equity especially if there is a decent amount dead money in the pot.

On the flips side of this I see people making awful folds time and time again with weak holdings that contain the possibility of a low or a high when they are short and the blinds /antis and pot odds make it a no brainer to call. People generally do not pay enough attention to pot size relative to stack size.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-27-2014 , 01:21 PM
Hope AK55 is a typo

Agree with what you are generally saying that spots change depending on game flow and table dynamics and the better regs adapt to this while many regs don't so much.

Mate you must have nice final tables if those 3 guys are the toughest FT opponents you have

I'd rather BXmaestro then some donk recs lol. He's maybe a bit better than he was but he used to be a big donk in mix games and O8. Flexmaster is a very good PLO player but as PLO players are he is too aggro in O8 although he has some good binks. Angryjuice is decent nowadays. I'd say dacus is a tougher player than the 3 mentioned.

I guess though these guys would make a regular daily O8 MTT final table strongish but for weeklies and say events i'd say off the top of my head players like Bedias, lyzardos, personal, playser37, nsinger, demonic, sleepy_seven(cant stand the massive douche and he keeps getting me chatbanned), xquantum1 are all tough opponents to play against and having any of those 3 would make it a tough FT for me. Some more aggro then others but a mix of them is going to make a tough FT.

There are more obv but they are just a few who have come to the top of my head. Obv diff people find some players tough and how you run versus these players influences that too. For example stars doesn't let me win a hand versus bedias and sleepy ****in seven. T hey both run way too god for as far as I can remember.


Anyway my man good job on your well and I think I do actually have a question and didn't come in here to spout a load of crap.

What events are you playing in WCOOP and are you selling action in the MP?

If the monies was the same which WCOOP event out of the games you play would you want to win?

How do you deal with the long WCOOP hours and stop you getting super tired? Some of the sessions are going to be gigantic. I'm thinking the days when there are 2 events to play that are say 5 hours apart.

If you had a crystal ball can you pls tell me if I am going to make any final tables and if so which one.(playing all the o8 and mix games and limit)

and

what final tables are you going to make?

Last edited by billygstar; 08-27-2014 at 01:27 PM.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-27-2014 , 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billygstar
Hope AK55 is a typo
Ask Dacus about this one


Quote:
Originally Posted by billygstar
Mate you must have nice final tables if those 3 guys are the toughest FT opponents you have

I'd rather BXmaestro then some donk recs lol. He's maybe a bit better than he was but he used to be a big donk in mix games and O8. Flexmaster is a very good PLO player but as PLO players are he is too aggro in O8 although he has some good binks. Angryjuice is decent nowadays. I'd say dacus is a tougher player than the 3 mentioned.


I guess though these guys would make a regular daily O8 MTT final table strongish but for weeklies and say events i'd say off the top of my head players like Bedias, lyzardos, personal, playser37, nsinger, demonic, sleepy_seven(cant stand the massive douche and he keeps getting me chatbanned), xquantum1 are all tough opponents to play against and having any of those 3 would make it a tough FT for me. Some more aggro then others but a mix of them is going to make a tough FT.

There are more obv but they are just a few who have come to the top of my head. Obv diff people find some players tough and how you run versus these players influences that too. For example stars doesn't let me win a hand versus bedias and sleepy ****in seven. T hey both run way too god for as far as I can remember.
Yeah I think I actually agree apart from flexmaster nl who just seems to not get out of line much whilst still being aggressive. I'm fairly sure I mentioned Bedias earlier in the thread but I have to concur that demonic, quantum et.al are all good thinking players with the ability to surprise you. In fact there are probably loads of others I could include in this list.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-27-2014 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahaha
Ask Dacus about this one




Yeah I think I actually agree apart from flexmaster nl who just seems to not get out of line much whilst still being aggressive. I'm fairly sure I mentioned Bedias earlier in the thread but I have to concur that demonic, quantum et.al are all good thinking players with the ability to surprise you. In fact there are probably loads of others I could include in this list.
mmm the quantum part was a level. quantum is a thinking guy but thinks about the wrong things lol. I'd happily have that clown at my table every day I play poker.

As i'm guessing the same with the ak55 which I guess dacus shoved on you with ha.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-27-2014 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billygstar
What events are you playing in WCOOP and are you selling action in the MP?
I will definitely be playing all the 08 stuff which comes in at $1500 +$750 worth of second chances. I do not understand why the FLO8 is $530 when it seems like it will be the least popular format of the 5 and I am guessing this will put a lot of people off so I might see who is regged for that one.

I would really like to play the razz and the horse but again I am really not sure why the razz is a $530 so the same as above might apply for this. I would also like to play all the plo mtts apart from the high rollers.

However this is all starting to add up so I will probably leave this until as late as possible to decide what if anything I sell in the MP although I imagine I will put something up.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-27-2014 , 02:23 PM
The FLO8 has always been $530. I think that's fine as it is WCOOP afterall and buyins should be higher. There is only 1 FLO8 event and pretty lame if it was a 215 imo.

Same with razz. Most of the best razz players play cash and a 530 buyin is better I think.

Yeah I agree though it sure does add up if trying to play a lot of events.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-27-2014 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billygstar
The FLO8 has always been $530. I think that's fine as it is WCOOP afterall and buyins should be higher. There is only 1 FLO8 event and pretty lame if it was a 215 imo.

Same with razz. Most of the best razz players play cash and a 530 buyin is better I think.

Yeah I agree though it sure does add up if trying to play a lot of events.
I understand where your coming from I just think it will put off all the weaker players especially for razz which is a pretty easy game with a lot of varience.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-27-2014 , 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahaha
I understand where your coming from I just think it will put off all the weaker players especially for razz which is a pretty easy game with a lot of varience.
Yeah it's defo better value being a $215.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-28-2014 , 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billygstar
If the monies was the same which WCOOP event out of the games you play would you want to win?
I am tempted to say the main event as this would be good for my profile as a player but it would have to be plo8 as it is the game I think I am best at and warrant a wcoop title in the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billygstar
How do you deal with the long WCOOP hours and stop you getting super tired? Some of the sessions are going to be gigantic. I'm thinking the days when there are 2 events to play that are say 5 hours apart.
Yeah these marathon sessions can be tough. I feel for hold em guys as they have to do it on a daily basis. Although obvious preparation is the key. I try and make sure to pace myself ear marking down/family days and often have a break before and after a big series of events. Taking the time in the morning before a session to properly prepare yourself with food snacks and some exercise always helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billygstar
If you had a crystal ball can you pls tell me if I am going to make any final tables and if so which one.(playing all the o8 and mix games and limit)
If I had to put money on you binking an event (which I may well do if your selling) it would probably be HORSE as I think you crush the field in that event. I would also think you have a very strong chance in the plo8 also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billygstar
what final tables are you going to make?

With a fair wind I can see myself doing well in the nlo8 6 max and I am would like to think I will always have a good shot at the plo8 and nlo8 full ring games.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-28-2014 , 11:00 AM
you still owe me a beer :-)


Have you ever felt cheated in any game?(online/live)
Omahaha's well Quote
08-28-2014 , 11:15 PM
This has been a great read!!! Thanks buzz for organizing and omahaha for writing so much!

I have a couple of questions:
1- what do you feel is the biggest leak that novice-intermediate players ( I.e not quite a fish but still learning their way) in O8 at mtt's under $6 for example? Besides chasing nut low all in on turn with no chance to scoop

2- what's the best way to learn O8 besides studying... I.e cash games, sng's (9 man or larger?) or mtt's?


Thanks in advance!
Omahaha's well Quote
08-28-2014 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahaha
I am tempted to say the main event as this would be good for my profile as a player but it would have to be plo8 as it is the game I think I am best at and warrant a wcoop title in the most.



Yeah these marathon sessions can be tough. I feel for hold em guys as they have to do it on a daily basis. Although obvious preparation is the key. I try and make sure to pace myself ear marking down/family days and often have a break before and after a big series of events. Taking the time in the morning before a session to properly prepare yourself with food snacks and some exercise always helps.



If I had to put money on you binking an event (which I may well do if your selling) it would probably be HORSE as I think you crush the field in that event. I would also think you have a very strong chance in the plo8 also.




With a fair wind I can see myself doing well in the nlo8 6 max and I am would like to think I will always have a good shot at the plo8 and nlo8 full ring games.
Yeah about the preparing for series and long sessions..sounds a good method. I have been going to the gym and or playing squash almost every day since coming to Bangkok 5 weeks ago and hope to keep it up. Hopefully it will help with my stamina in WCOOP as it can be really tough starting a long session at from 10-12pm for me. I like to be sleeping at that time. The 1st day has the kickoff which is what 6pm for me and then SM at 2am lol..something like that. Lots of coffee I guess although i'm wondering if I should just forget the kickoff.

Yup gl in the events you play. I think you will FT one of the NLO8's!

I'll happily take your forced prediction and chop the HORSE again It would almost save a horrid year poker wise.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-29-2014 , 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by belg_owner
you still owe me a beer :-)
That I do and you could probably rightfully claim a chaser for interest by now


Quote:
Originally Posted by belg_owner
Have you ever felt cheated in any game?(online/live)
I feel cheated on a daily basis like today when my open 3 bet shove gets called 50 bb deep by 3467 and scoops

But in terms of actual cheating I have sometimes felt a little suspicious playing cash on little sites where you know that certain players will be chatting via messenger of some kind and there is little in the way of security. However when your chasing really soft games I guess this is the risk you take.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-29-2014 , 07:52 AM
^ Teach me how to open 3 bet shove?!
Omahaha's well Quote
08-29-2014 , 08:25 AM
Hi tighty,

Glad you enjoyed the read!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tightywhity
This has been a great read!!! Thanks buzz for organizing and omahaha for writing so much!

I have a couple of questions:
1- what do you feel is the biggest leak that novice-intermediate players ( I.e not quite a fish but still learning their way) in O8 at mtt's under $6 for example? Besides chasing nut low all in on turn with no chance to scoop

Players new to the game often over value a2xx where xx= 9/< a2xx is obviously a hand we want to play but there as it generally has limited high value we want to generally avoid getting it in heads up with this hand unless we are short or have a good other reason. However this hand plays well mutiway and of course we want to see flops with it. In certain spots in early position in FR some of these hands can be an open fold.

New players to the game and even some regs also tend to misplay 2345/ 3456 type hands. Generally speaking I like to limp with these hands as mostly you are crushed equity wise against all holdings but they have a lot of value because where you do flop well you will often get paid off. So if we limp with these hands we can call a raise rather than have to fold to a 3 bet if we open with them.

KK is also a hand that is often played badly by novice/intermediate players mostly by being overvalued.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tightywhity
2- what's the best way to learn O8 besides studying... I.e cash games, sng's (9 man or larger?) or mtt's?
This totally depends on what you would ultimately like to play. I think in the current climate if you are looking to make money SNG's and MTT's are the way to go. One thing I constantly tell people who want to learn is not to forget to put work into your heads up game as this is where a lot of the money in these formats is made. Playing heads up sng's the best way to do this. There is no shame in losing a little cash against a good heads up player if what you learn by doing so helps you come first in even one mtt.
Omahaha's well Quote
08-29-2014 , 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Value
^ Teach me how to open 3 bet shove?!
Meh I obviously need to put more work into my multitasking abillitys
Omahaha's well Quote
08-29-2014 , 08:26 AM
I think he just confessed to ma'ing
Omahaha's well Quote
04-12-2015 , 09:13 AM
nice read indeed,

in which place of devon do you live (if you don't mind to tell it)
is there any place for live omaha/8 or poker in general you used to play?
cheers
Omahaha's well Quote
04-17-2015 , 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by epithemia
nice read indeed,

in which place of devon do you live (if you don't mind to tell it)
is there any place for live omaha/8 or poker in general you used to play?
cheers
Hi Epithemia,

Managed to catch a nasty dose of the Flu on my way back from Australia so just seen this.

I live in a small town between Exeter and Barnstaple called Chulmleigh.

From what I can gather real poker venues are thin on the ground in the South West in general (perhaps the worst in the country?). The only two options to my knowledge are Plymouth and Bristol although I have tried neither.

I used to play a lot live but have not played much since I have live in the South West (I am originally from London). I would love to be proved wrong but to my knowledge most poker locally is small home games of various descriptions.
Omahaha's well Quote
06-22-2017 , 10:20 AM
Just stumbled across this thread in the darkest depths...

I'm based in Exeter too, I know what you mean about Poker being thin on the ground. Feels like no-one is playing down here. I actually work in the Teign Valley, not far from you... if you're still here that is!
Omahaha's well Quote

      
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