OK, here's a real hand - it's Pot-Limit Omaha 8:

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 PL Hi/Lo (6 max) - Omaha Hi/Lo - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 139 BB
BB: 56 BB (VPIP: 63.64, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
UTG: 77 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 28)
CO: 151 BB (VPIP: 91.89, PFR: 67.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 38)
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A Q 8 Q

fold, CO raises to 3.5 BB, BTN calls 3.5 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, BB calls 2.5 BB

Flop: (14 BB, 4 players) 6 7 K
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: (14 BB, 4 players) 3
Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets 5 BB, fold, Hero ???

CO wins 13.5 BB

I'm basically setmining pre in a 4-way pot, hoping for two cards 9 or higher on the flop. That call would probably have been a lot better on the button than in the SB.

I'm clearly not going to bet the flop and risk getting raised - I want a cheap turn.

Pretty good turn for me actually - I have A3678 - the second-nut low, and I see no reason to believe I'm up against A2. I think this is a pretty easy call and I'm hoping the 3rd player stays in the pot. The only card I DON'T want to see on the river is an ace.

You do not have anywhere near the second nut low, as stated. Did you make a typo in your original hand? If not, you lose low to:

A2
A4
24
A5
25
45

I'd fold. I would have been looking for different cards on the flop and turn.

Actually, I'd probably fold to a bet on the flop. Basically you missed a fit with the flop. I don't think of
A Q 8 Q
as a very good starting hand because I think there are a very limited number of flops you'll like with that starting hand.

I don't think that's a very wise strategy.

Although I don't think of
A Q 8 Q
as a great starting hand for Omaha-8, I might see the flop cheaply with it, mainly either looking for a rainbow flop with a queen or looking for a sign of weakness from my opponents.

You do get the sign of weakness from your opponents on the flop, but then to exploit it, you'd have to either bet the turn yourself, rather than checking, or check/raise... and that takes you into the world of bluffing and trying to outplay your opponents... not exactly beginner plays for pot-limit.

Your low is 87631.

Better lows are
76321
76431
76432
76531
76532
76534
Oops. Now I see that Chill Rob already did this.

DalTXColtsFan - When you start talking about a different hand, please start a separate thread for the different hand.
Thanks.
Buzz

you have the fourth nut low-low

Not the seventh-nut-low low?

Seventh.

i only count 3 possible lows that are worse then hero lows

OK, Omybike is trying to be silly by saying OP has the 4th worst low possible. Pretty pointless to try to confuse OP even further when he is trying to learn though.

I see. You stop counting when you get to 3.

funny, when you wanne learn it mostly good to look at it from different ankles.
So if lot of guys say 7th low to beginner this may mean nothing with the information i give he can figure out that he practically have the worst low possible (because people dont bet or cal worse lows mostly)

but again you guys are so good in o8 so you know better how a beginner should look at the game

I didn't say "seventh nut low" until I was correcting you. I pointed out exactly all the possible better low hands, as did Buzz.

you was not correcting me

I thought I was correcting you, but actually you were just engaging in stupidity and mocking of the OP and the people who were trying to help him. Can't you just remove yourself and your trolling from this thread? Nobody wants to look at the hand from your "ankles".

i think this is false for sure

Prob best to fold this preflop without at least 1 suit to the ace. (In this spot)

How does 24 beat me? On a 367K board 24 makes 23467. I have A3678. Doesn't my A beat his 2 no matter what the rest of the cards are?

Surely A2678 doesn't lose to 34567 - if so, what would be the benefit of playing so many A2 hands?

This is a VERY common mistake that beginners often make.

You wanna figure out what your low hand is? You start with the HIGHEST card in your hand and work down. You have two low cards in your hand, right? They are an 8 and an Ace. You have an 8 low (8763A). A 24 would read like this (76432) for a seven low.

A2678 vs 34567, for example. What is the low on the A2678? Obviously it's not an Ace for low, correct? No, this is an 87xxx low. Whereas the 34567 is a 7 low. Always start with the highest number first, then the second highest number after that and so on, cause, there might be several people with a 7 low so sometimes you'll have to go to the second and third number to find out who's 7 low is the lowest.

When you play a hand like A8QQ(no suits), the MAIN thing that you're really looking to flop with this hand is a set of Queens. Granted, often times you'll get lucky and the flop will come up AAQ or TJK rainbow, but you're almost NEVER relying on the A8 for low. And, you're also not looking to flop just a lone Ace! And I'd venture to say that an AX8 flop is also a check/fold because you have no backup for anything else(no flush draw, no straight draw etc).


The thing is(and why I'm explaining it so much): You MUST know what you're looking to hit with the hands you play or you're going to be putting in good money after bad.

As soon as that King flops? YOU'RE DONE!

GAME OVER!

It's like when you have KK in holdem; what are you saying to yourself? "No Ace, no Ace!" When you have AQQ in Omaha, I'd be saying "No King, No King!"

Again, forget the A8 for low. That's NOT a low IF it's the ONLY part of the hand that you think will win. Get it? Cause you should be fully aware that your QQ isn't going to hold up for the high half---not with that KING out there!

The following is copied from our frequently asked questions sticky:

An easy way for reading your low is to change "ace" to "1" and read from the top rank down, instead of the bottom rank up. Thus if you hold A26K, and the board is 457JQ, choosing two cards from your hand and three cards from the board, your low is 7542A, which is read as 75,421. (This is applicable in any low or high/low game, not just O8).

• Read A2678 as 87621.
• Read 34567 as 76543.

Which is the lower number?

But you're not playing an A2 hand. You're playing an A8 hand. Big difference. (An A2 hand is one of those that would beat you).

Buzz

Wow - I'm glad I'm playing two-cent tables while I make these rookie mistakes!

Thanks for the help!

Is this an example of why I keep hearing that mid-level cards have to be played very carefully? I mean, if you have 7W or 8W (W=wheel card) in your hand, the only time you'd even CONSIDER playing that hand is if you're up against two villains who you think have the nut high and second-nut high and are going to fight each other (heads up it's simply not worth it).

And even 9s and Ts aren't worthless, but they'll never make a low and are at risk of being dominated for a high.

I guess. I wouldn't phrase it quite that way, but in general you should prefer not to have middle cards in high low split games. In general, higher cards do better for high than middle cards and lower cards do better for low than middle cards.

Not exactly. It's Omaha, so that you are dealt four cards... not two. Thus you couldn't have 7W or 8W.

But you could have
(1) AK72 or
(2) J972.
In either case you have a 7W (as 72), which is not a very good two card combination, but in the first case you also have some fine two card combinations while in the second case you don't. Thus the first hand is very playable while the second hand generally isn't.

Yes.

Buzz

The benefit of A2, is that unless there is an A or 2 on the board you will always have the nut low (when a low is possible).

In your example here, the 7 high hand would win, but those two hands would never really be in the running against each other, because 3 of the cards in your final hand are always community cards.

If someone had A2 in his hole cards, and his opponent could make a 34567, at least 3 of those 5 cards must be on the board, meaning the guy with A2 could make a better 7 low; he would never be stuck with the 8 low in your example.

fundamental rule of omaha, **you must use 2 cards from your hand and 3 cards from the board to make your 5 card 'poker' hand**

your example i quoted above --A2678 doesn't lose to 34567, doesn't obey that fundamental rule (and it ought to be obvious).

its necessary to understand fundamentals before moving forward.

OP, most of the questions you have are answered in the various stickies. You should read them.