bah i'm stupid and smoke too much pot...

here it is its pretty simple

2% of the time i do not have the low
2% of the time I get scooped for the low
but i also scoop the low when i don't have it 7.5% of the itme

this is why i said my low is both nut and unbreakable...i will only lose the low around 3% oof the time and win 97% of the time...

it's not the nut unbreakable low but it might as well be...it's close enough!!!!

i'm kinda surprised u O8 enthusiasts don't find this thread fascinating...i suck at math, but i'm good at logic and it's very logical that they have to have a two card or better hand to continue...this gives u a process of narrowing down their cards...

reads are critical...they can have 45 or a flush draw as their two-card high hand,s but these villains, in my mind, wouldn't play those hands this way, so that right there made me realize that they had to both have two cards that are A2 or 3, meaning they could only have 4's randomly on four cards

wish i coulda hit my hi tho

hope anyone interested in this game is helped by that but not really coz i want ur $$$$

/thread

hit the nail on the head I'd say

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: a237

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
5h6hqsks	52.31%	94,643	125,846	1,124	485,347	32,449
(a2,a3,23,aa,22,33)!45	23.83%	14,346	223,643	26,000	38,610	21,806
(a2,a3,23,aa,22,33)!45	23.86%	14,350	223,920	26,064	38,739	21,726

looks to me like you lose the low almost 13% of the time, win it almost 81% and split it the other 6%

did u not read the part where they CAN"T HAVE 45

seriously if anyone who is at all competent and can analyze this type of problem wants to speak up i'd love to hear it

if u want to level coz u don't understand, cool, it will keep the thread afloat...

as of now with my prehistoric math skills i've figured out that i have 97% equity in the low pot...and i'm trying to figure out how much i own of the high...i scoop on 3 of the 4's and most of the hearts...the only thing to do is figure out how often two hearts are paired in one hand..i bet it's something like 25%

the ! (exclamation point) is "NOT"

so a2!45 is a2 and any 2 cards not 45

sorry to have tried to help, won't happen again

lol at showing a chart that u found on the internet to prove your point...you are quite right u can't help...but keep trolling coz someone who stumbles across this thread might and maybe buzz will come back too

^ Yeah, how dare anyone use figures to actually back up what they are saying.

Can a mod lock this obv troll thread?

Level? I mean NiceGuy Ft gave you the answer and you got mad? So confused.

i think it's pretty funny that people who don't understsand try and knock it..and then others who can appreciate the math behind it let their ego get in the way coz they didn't think of it....

it's a really really cool hand imo..if it dies it dies but why are you guys coming in here to troll it..do u have anything enllightening to say about it or are u convinced it's not the virtual low nuts because a computer program told u it wasn't?

Is a troll someone who disagrees with you, your thought process and your math? As plenty of people who have said something "enlightening" but disagree with you have been deemed trolls.

how can u argue with the math?

first no one thouht it was a good starting hand at all, but then buzz figured out that it was top 30%

then everyone wants to fold coz they are scurred of 46 but if neither have 45 and both have 2 pair or better then my low is good 98% of the time

whether or not my read was correct, if the above two conditions are met then this is true by simple math

what is there to disagree with?

i think it's more that people either don't understand or their ego won't let them admit they were wrong about the hand...if u have the low 98% of the time, have 3 clean scoop outs and a few other possible scoops, why are u folding?

by the way i think if they do have any four in their hand then a 5 or a 6 scoops us for the low amirite?

so if they have a 4 (28%) and a 5 or a 6 will come out on the river a little over 15%, so that means my low, by my math, will win 95.8% of the time

this is close enough to a free-roll to get it in every time...we win the low 95.8% of the time and win the high 30%...pretty good odds imo

by the way...those computer simulations for omaha hi/lo multi-way pots are going to be filled with error...i wouldn't take it as the absolute truth...it's virtually impossible to calculate by brute force

i'm sure that's a good topic for another thread

You have unreal zeal for this hand.

I think it is more interesting if your actual hand is quad 4s: 4444. Then it will be true they CAN'T HAVE 45.

Did anyone actually say anything past a simple "fold pre" or a simple nice "quit the game of o8 or get coaching if you are this clueless." If so, why?

lol...doubt there is more than 1 or 2 winning players in this thread...go to an O8 nl game and everyone just shoves 100BBs pre coz they are so clueless on flops...this is an easy flop read, if they don't have 45 (which they never do when they play the flop this way), then our low is good almost every time, there isn't any hgh hand they can continue with that doesn't make two pair or better...sorry that players who think they are good but aren't can't understand...it's really very simple

mods u can close the thread now...when losing players start trolling a thread and have the deer in the headlights look, there is nothing else to be said...you can't make people who don't accept simple logic undersstand

3 fails:
NLO8: I limp ep with a marginal hand

it's funny you want opinions on it but call every1 losingplayers (besides 1 or 2) who don't agree with you.
i wonder who you are to act like that, sn?

no...i need help playing flops...so does everyone else in the thread...no one points out that a 6 also kills my low...i didn't even recongnize it for 2 weeks...this hand is an EASY flop to play, once u narrow the ristrictions

this is a ridic tough flop game...i believe that ppl are reading this thread still because there is too much to learn and too difficult a hand to decipher

In O8 u have to decipher two hands and on a lot of flops that is impossible..most of u are playing A2 hands which u KNOW will be hood on some flops like

K38 ...this flop would be impossible to guess someones range because they could either have the low or the high and, the low hand is stronger then high

what if the flops comes cooridnated like

Ah2h3c

then there is one low hand scooping vs highs, if u don't have a 4 in your hand u are in trouble, and your bets are going to reflect it to a thinking player, so my guess is that they never even have a four here, and i've shown that even if they randomly have a four in their hand i will scoop the low pot >95% of the time

think about it...if u didn't at least have a gutter to the low, are u calling any flop bet? i don't think they have a four at all, so i hve the nut low every time they don't have a 4

they could have a 5, but i'm unbreakable vs a 5

this is why it is the nut low...if they don't possess a 4 then i'm nut and unbreakable

my guess is this hand is too complicated for ppl to understand, but it's actually one of the easiest flop you could play, since taking out one hand in their range gives u the stone nut low

there might even be ppl in the thread that don't even realize they have to have a 4 to have your low beaten...i prob jumped way ahead of ppl when i made that assumption

so the low is 45, 46, 56...ruling out 45 necessarily rules out 46...the rest of the combos of 4 have 6 outs

What does this even mean? You realize there are combos of a5xx that scoop you on certain board runouts.

nope...non heart 4 gives me the nut high, i only get scooped when the 4 of hearts comes AND they have a higher flush + any 5

that's one out only when they have another flush draw....i've been thinking about this and i think they have another flush draw 25%...that means we lose to a 5 one time in 156

rbut the odds are actually less because i hold one of the 5s and it's the 5 of hearts, so it's going to be a very rare scenario...since the person who has a 5 can't calso have a flush draw, so the only way i can be scooped on the four of hearts is if one guy has a 5 and the other has a FD...this is about a 200:1 shot i think

cmon guys.,.for the sake of argument...asuume that neither villain holds 45 and both have 2 pair or better...that accounts for two of their cards...the other two are random...that means they either have aflush draw with the 3 or they randomly have two hearts to go with 2 pair or a set

you're on tilt.

You remind me of mikey from the movie swingers.

And then you give reasoning why it is in fact yes.

i don't think u understand that any 5 in their hand can't break me...if a 4 comes i have the nut high hand, so i get half the pot vs any 5...it's only the 4s that u have to worry about...and by my reads i've eliminated them from their range

mods u can close the thread now...before i get to addicted to it of course

really suprising that ppl who profess to like this game don't see it...everyone wanted to fold the nuts!