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| Omaha/8 Discussions of Omaha High-Low Split (Eight or Better) Poker. |
08-02-2012, 01:48 PM
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#1
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journeyman
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Frankfurt
Posts: 236
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NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
I'm not sure I get this going with converting HH, help is really appreciated here!
Anyway, what are you thinking about action on flop and turn?
Raising flop? Calling turn as well if flop just called?
Comments are very welcome
PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
saw flop | saw showdown
Button ($27.65)
SB ($15.89)
BB ($15.16)
Hero (UTG) ($20.26)
MP ($7.38)
CO ($10.34)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with A  , 9  , 2  , A
Hero bets $0.25, 2 folds, Button calls $0.25, SB calls $0.20, BB calls $0.15
Flop: ($1) 10  , 3  , A (4 players)
SB bets $0.20, BB calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, Button calls $0.20
Turn: ($1.80) 7 (4 players)
SB bets $0.40, BB calls $0.40, Hero raises to $2.20, 1 fold, SB calls $1.80, 1 fold
River: ($6.60) J (2 players)
SB bets $13.24 (All-In), Hero folds
Total pot: $6.60 | Rake: $0.30
Results:
SB didn't show
Outcome: SB won $6.30
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08-02-2012, 02:59 PM
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#2
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veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Israel
Posts: 2,248
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
you need to raise the flop:
1) SB bet very small, indicating a wide range.
2) BB only called the small bet, indicating a wide range.
3) there's a player behind. if he folds you win last position which would allow you to play the turn better. getting folds may also dramatically increase your equity share in the pot.
4) whether people call or fold, getting more money in as an equity favorite is a good thing. that's how you make money.
5) you ended up raising the turn only to have to (correctly) fold the river once a bad card came and SB bombed. it's frustrating. you built the pot for someone else. but that person could (should) have been you. sometimes you lose, that's part of the game. make strong value (and promo) raises, and you'd do just fine.
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08-02-2012, 04:50 PM
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#3
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grinder
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 616
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
I would raise more pre. but 2x-2.5x isn't bad.
There are almost no good turns for you scooping, board pairing or one of the 3 non-diamond 9s.
So you have two options IMO:
1. You can try to x/c all the way, or bet small if checked to on turn, and try to win the top half of a pot with 4 people in it ... but you have to be scared of any diamond and any high card, wheel and even random runner runner things like a turn 7 and then a river 6. This is "pure" poker where you look like a genius when you win, but a moron when you get scooped by two villains with 42 and 98 or fold river when villains showdown J942 and AT52 (like here you have the high _some_ of the time, but you need great reads to make the call).
2. You try and bet villains out, raise flop big (and shove if raised) and then shove most turns. It's not great because you are the most likely to not have a low, and you don't have one ... and you often have <50% equity when you get called stacking off on turn. But it's a lot easier to play, and villains will tend not to call any4 as much.
...100bb deep I probably go option #2 all the time, 150 against SB with the weak donk I
probably go option #2 and hope BTN folds if SB was 200bb deep too option #1 might well be less emotional pain.
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08-02-2012, 07:25 PM
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#4
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,832
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by str8 or better
4) whether people call or fold, getting more money in as an equity favorite is a good thing. that's how you make money.
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Hero is an equity dog if opponent has a low draw and a flush draw; he could be as low as 35%.
OP played every street wrong, except river. As you say, pre should be raised, and flop raised. Calling the flop hoping for a safe turn card (ensuring we're a favourite) before raising is understandable, but a bad card comes and then he raises anyway! The turn raise is silly, it is just walking into a freeroll.
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08-03-2012, 06:10 AM
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#5
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journeyman
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Frankfurt
Posts: 236
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
my thinking for flop call was that I've been there quite often and I don't want to get money into the pot if someone holds decent low and flush draw. With raising I would eliminate veryone but this player, if villians are reasonable (don't know if that is true -> zoom).
But I figured that anyone with this hand would raise flop or not lead 20% of pot. so on turn I was thinking that no one has me beat equity wise. For this reason, I raise turn to get value from villians if at least two have nut low (which is possible the way they played it).
river is unfortunate, but other villians' folds after raise on turn tell me that I was wrong anyway.
Usually I would raise flop, but I got into trouble quite often in the last time with top sets, so I tried something new. After all, I don't like my flat call too much.
one last question: given the flat call on flop, the turn is a call as well rather than a raise?
btw I try to raise every hand the same way, even in zoom, since there are also a lot of regulars. Should I go up to 3xBB with having about 11% PFR?
thanks for your responses!
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08-03-2012, 11:26 PM
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#6
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,832
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunolf
on turn I was thinking that no one has me beat equity wise. For this reason, I raise turn to get value from villians if at least two have nut low (which is possible the way they played it).
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The time to do this is after waiting for a safe river where you have a full house or the nuts.
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08-06-2012, 10:23 AM
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#7
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Soldier of Minbet
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: DOMUS CLAMANTIUM
Posts: 9,197
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
in a NL game, just shove on the flop
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08-06-2012, 12:20 PM
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#8
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journeyman
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Frankfurt
Posts: 236
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCIUS VARENUS
in a NL game, just shove on the flop
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I think that is the worst option here!
what is gonna call a 20$ (200BBs) shove? someone with low and flush draw!
and we're not ahead against this range on this flop
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08-06-2012, 12:24 PM
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#9
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veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Israel
Posts: 2,248
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCIUS VARENUS
in a NL game, just shove on the flop
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15 spr+dogs to villian's calling range=bad shove.
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08-08-2012, 01:49 AM
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#10
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stranger
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: DELAWARE
Posts: 13
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
pot the flop to see where your hand stands, get those 52xx and 54xx low draws out of the way and try to get it heads up then assess from there
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08-08-2012, 03:23 AM
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#11
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journeyman
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Frankfurt
Posts: 236
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
let's pretend I raise to like 1$ and it clears the field to the SB, who calls.
now the 7 hits on the turn, what would you do then?
1.) if SB checks to you
2.) if SB bets (almost) pot
3.) if SB moves all-in?
where 1.) is probably the most interesting case
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08-08-2012, 10:14 AM
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#12
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grinder
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 616
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
1) Check behind, it's weak and sets you up to get bluffed on the river ... but the only other option is betting strong and being forced to call it off.
2) You should fold, as it's the same bet as all-in (SB will have ~1 SPR on river and can open shove any card).
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08-08-2012, 12:39 PM
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#13
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veteran
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: post-quals syndrome
Posts: 2,342
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by illiterat
There are almost no good turns for you scooping, board pairing or one of the 3 non-diamond 9s.
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?
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08-08-2012, 12:42 PM
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#14
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veteran
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: post-quals syndrome
Posts: 2,342
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittens
OP played every street wrong, except river. As you say, pre should be raised, and flop raised.
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The HH fooled me too but pre was raised. Unless you mean raise more...?
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08-08-2012, 02:42 PM
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#15
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grinder
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 616
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Re: NL10 Zoom - Flopping top set in multiway pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterchi
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Not sure what the question is. But any low card means you can be fighting for half. KQJ is a ~9 out wrap on the flop and so will call a lot (esp. with good diamonds).
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