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Old 08-11-2012, 05:26 PM   #1
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Spade NL10: flopped bare nut low hu ip

zoom. villian is unknown.

when will I be able to convert nlo8 hands?

anyway, I have 13$ and open HJ to 0.35$ with AJT2
CO and BTN are deep but fold. blinds are rather shallow stacked.
SB also folds but BB elects to defend. BB started the hand with 5.23$.

Flop (2 players, 0.75$ in the pot, 4.88$ behind): 765

villian checks, and I decided to check behind, planning to shove over a likely turn bet by villian.

here's my reasoning:

1) SPR equals 6.5, which puts me in a weird spot if villian check/raises.

2) I thought I'd do better against villian's turn betting range (after I check behind on the flop) than against his flop check/raising or even check/calling range.

3) the old fashioned - wanna make the last aggressive action - thinking. I'd love to see villian bet/folding the turn. I'd hate to get check/raised on the flop.

4) betting the flop isn't for value. it's not really a bluff, either. I do get to fold lots of hands with substantial pot equity, though...

I think it really all comes down to SPR. if SPR is 4 or less, I bet/call. if over 10, I probably bet/fold. 6.5 is really in the middle, at least it feels like it...

well...?
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:55 PM   #2
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Re: NL10: flopped bare nut low hu ip

I would like to bet. I'd call if raised.

There is so much free equity available if we can get him to fold. Think of all the hands he can spike for the high, or that might encourage him to continue.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:25 PM   #3
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Re: NL10: flopped bare nut low hu ip

i would bet the flop. shoving over a turn bet seems pretty bad.
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Old 08-13-2012, 03:30 AM   #4
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Re: NL10: flopped bare nut low hu ip

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Originally Posted by BigBadBabar View Post
i would bet the flop. shoving over a turn bet seems pretty bad.
people tend to bet after their opponents fail to c-bet. i'd like to take advantage of this fact from time to time:

1) is it a good spot? (I have some insurance, but hope he folds, OBV)

2) do I look at things (trying to counter villians' aggressive tendencies) from a wrong POV?

3) flop - bet/call or bet/fold?

thanks
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:44 AM   #5
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Re: NL10: flopped bare nut low hu ip

I like the check behind on the flop..

If villian bets the turn you have alot of different plays to make. Im not familar with "spr" and have no idea what that means but whatever...

Shove his turnbet is bad imo. Instead i prefer to raise his turnbet leaving enought action for a bet greater than 65% of villians stack on the river, so u shove the river with a decent fold eq and more money in the pot.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:22 AM   #6
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Re: NL10: flopped bare nut low hu ip

Quote:
Originally Posted by str8 or better View Post
people tend to bet after their opponents fail to c-bet. i'd like to take advantage of this fact from time to time:

1) is it a good spot? (I have some insurance, but hope he folds, OBV)

2) do I look at things (trying to counter villians' aggressive tendencies) from a wrong POV?

3) flop - bet/call or bet/fold?

thanks
you have a one-way hand where if stacks go in you're likely in a bad spot. so it doesn't seem like a spot where you would want to shove.

it seems to me when you say you want to counter villains' aggressive tendencies that you mean you want to discourage him from doing this certain play. is his doing this play something that gives you trouble? i like knowing how my opponents are going to play.

if you mean you want to exploit his tendency, then you'll have to figure out what to do with different parts of your range once he bets the turn. will you fold some, call some, raise some, shove some? will some of your calls then be river folds, river calls, river raises, river shoves? if so, then you're reasonably balanced and you won't be giving away information to your opponent. if you only are call calling with nut low no high, or call folding with low draw that misses, etc etc, then observant opponents may figure out what you're up to. and if you are playing in low stakes games where most opponents don't know what's going on anyway, then making these plays isn't going to be necessary, as a pretty exploitative style will be the most profitable one. i don't know what stakes you play so i don't know the caliber of your opponents.

it also matters if you think this strategy is a better one than whatever strategy you were previously using.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:34 AM   #7
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Re: NL10: flopped bare nut low hu ip

I think it IS exploitative. I try to exploit the fact that villians bet the turn too often and too wide once their opponent checks the flop, rather than c-bet.
If they bet the turn too often too wide, then they probably bet/fold a lot, too.
That's exactly what I want to happen. Originally, I didn't like bet/deciding on the flop, and then came up with this plan, which I thought WAS exploitative...

It's micro stakes zoom, BTW, so reads are often unavailable and a balanced strategy is often unnecessary...
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:42 AM   #8
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Re: NL10: flopped bare nut low hu ip

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFseeeb8 View Post

Im not familar with "spr" and have no idea what that means but whatever...
I'm pleased you said that! Let's hope someone tells us!
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:57 AM   #9
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Re: NL10: flopped bare nut low hu ip

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Originally Posted by WTFseeeb8 View Post
Im not familar with "spr" and have no idea what that means but whatever...
My guess is "SPR" means "stack to pot ratio."

Buzz
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:12 AM   #10
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Re: NL10: flopped bare nut low hu ip

Buzz is correct.

on the flop, there is 0.75$ in the pot, 4.88$ behind.
4.88/0.75= 6.5~
that's the stack to pot ratio.

In general, the higher the SPR, the better hand you need to commit your entire stack.
SPR<4 is considered low. SPR>13 is considered high.

here, SPR is in the middle, which makes me uncomfortable bet/calling and uncomfortable bet/folding (the flop).
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