I think your bolded statement would be why you are not going to many FTs.

Once ITM, no fear.

Not saying play like a donk once ITM, but no reason to hold back at that point.

Other than that, like I said before, to me it's just O8 on steroids... taken to the extreme. I don't care if it's PL, NL, 6max, or turbo... love this game.

OK - so I got 4th in the PS PL $3.30 HL for just over $50. Was short stacked some of the time but generally was OK chip-wise throughout. Perhaps I was playing a little less safe this time but I did get some decent cards as well.

PS have a $5000 guaranteed in their Micro millions series so I'm looking forward to that one. Otherwise I may just try some cash games - hopefully some Zoom, which I think is listed.

I'd like to enter a large buy in MTT with big pay outs as I feel I'd be not much worse than some, and a bit better than others. I rarely feel that any one player is that much better than myself - there may be an edge there for some but overall I think I'd have about as much chance in such a game as in the lower buy ins.

I've been on a roll since July 4th in Courchevel:

$4.4PL = 4th
$5.5PL = 1st
$3.3NL = 4th
$5.5NL = 9th
$8.8NL = 1st

Congratulations. It's nice to hear of your success.

Buzz

What are the ranges at different positions, roughly? Let say the door card is Ad, on the button I open AA, KdXd, WWW, AWW, 23xxx, 24xxx, which is about 40% according to propokertools. Is it too tight or too loose in general? How playable are hands with naked split pairs of aces and naked Kd hands?

I think of the door card more as a limiting card than an enhancing card. For example, if the door card is the A, high pairs other than aces, like KK***, are devalued. Also spade, heart and club flush draws are devalued. Also A2***, A3***, and A4*** low draws are devalued. etc.

I don't know what you mean by "open" in a no-limit Courchevel game. (I know what "open" means in a fixed-limit Texas hold 'em game). By "on the button I open" are you implying everyone past the blinds has folded?

The number of players seated at the table and dealt cards makes a difference as to what hands I'll play. But in general it's safe to say I'd generally play the hands you have listed (AA***, KdXd***, WWW**, AWW**, 23***, and 24***) from on the button. I might play some other hands as well.

I'm curious. How did ProPokerTools estimate those particular hands make up 40% of the hands you'll be dealt when the door card is the A? (Just curious as to how you got that percentage from ProPokerTools data).

Seems fine to me. 24***!A!3 seems the weakest of the playable hands you've listed, but in general I'd want to see the rest of the flop after the door card was the A.

I don't know what you mean by "naked split pairs of aces."

I'm guessing "naked Kd hands" means a hand with the king of diamonds but no other diamonds and no other kings. If so, I generally would not try bluffing if the diamond flush came in (because that line of play doesn't work well for me... but to each his own).

Buzz

Assume a 6max game folded to the Button. I'm just going to study this particular case as a starting point.

I just input the range AA***, Kdd***, {$W$W$W}**, {A$W$W}**, 23***, 24*** , put Ad as the flop card and use the Count function, which gives a total of 762584 hands. The total number of possible hands with Ad door is 51C5=2349060 hands.
762584/2349060=32.5% (My previous calculation was wrong.)

32.5% seems too tight from button.

"naked pair ace hands"=Axxxx, pairing the door card and nothing else. The playability probably depends on x a lot. I may play A26xx, probably not A56xx; or maybe stuff like AKKQx.

Hands with 5 high cards like KQJT9 are also playable I think, down to maybe QQJJT.

Since we'll have position postflop, QdXd*** and JdXd*** hands probably can be played profitably.

This game is really complex.

Thank you. Very helpful.

I'd also play Qdd***, maybe Jdd***, and some A**** hands. Probably depends on your opponents (the blinds) and how you play the hands.

I should have known that.

I wouldn't, but whatever.

Yes. I think so too.

Agreed. I like it.

Buzz

I cant see myself ever dumping a set pre generally. There would need to be very strong icm factors in play.

Well, in these NL Turbo Rebuy games I have found out the hard way how often low sets fail - but will play them anyway because you need the chips and have to take your best chances.

A recent example which I wouldn't mind an odds analysis for was after the Rebuy period and I had 44665 with the first flop card a 4. Then 10 10. My turn to bet, and this is where I'd like some advice if possible: Assuming the other player had a 10 plus four different high cards, which I did assume, and which he had, who is favourite to win the hand? I guessed I might be a bit of an underdog but nevertheless went with the hand and lost to a better full house. In this particular tourney it was probably correct to play such a hand as you really need to increase your chip count fast or die, but I wonder? Even against only one other player I come unstuck too frequently with low sets - and against multiple opponents they are so vulnerable. I've tried standard raises, all-ins and just plain old flat calling - none of which seem to work any better than the other. Hence folding in these situations is something I need to consider. In these particular tourneys all-in or fold may be the best option with a set of fours, giving cards that don't fit the chance to fold, which should mean high hands other than suited Aces.

Heads up is a hand like the one above similar to QQ v AK in HE? A shooutout, in other words?

I believe you're a 5-4 dog if he held a T and 4 separate cards that were none of {4,5,6,T}, but higher than a 4.

Low sets can definitely be tricky.

Four card Omaha-8, you're ahead. Five card Omaha-8, you're behind.

Use ProPokerTools five-card Omaha-8 simulator for Courcheval-8 simulations:

ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

741 trials (Exhaustive)

board: 4TT

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
6s6h5h4d4c	48.72%	337	337	0	144	0
AsKhQhTd9c	51.28%	356	404	0	0	0

I don't like small sets either.

Aren't the queens ahead of big slick?

Buzz

Good work Buzz... I forgot about the 4 coming for quads.

Thank you both for that - very useful.

Yes Buzz, more like AK v QQ.

But shouldnt in the described situation it be profitable, to push that small set all inn pre??? Down to how many true bb i need to be, to push a small set pre from any postion all inn???

You use exactly two cards from your starting hand in Omaha-high or Omaha-8. A set is three of a kind using two cards from your starting hand and one card from the board.

It is impossible to have a set before the flop, because in order to have a set you need to have a pair in your hand that is the same rank as one of the cards on the board. Since you cannot know what the cards on the board will be before the flop, you cannot have a set before the flop.

As explained above, you cannot possibly have a small set pre.

Buzz

Hmm sorry - I was thinking Courchevel 8. Do you have an opinion on that and small sets pre?

Ah! I see!

You're asking if you should shove if your five card no-limit courcheval-8 starting hand has a small pair and the door card matches your pair.

It's hard to answer in general because I think the answer depends on your opponents (and also the other cards in your hand). You're probably ahead,

ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: 2

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
2c2s3c4s5c	66.37%	300,579	416,071	6,791	236,880	11,211
Ah*h***	33.63%	103,211	177,138	6,791	167,917	11,211

but not necessarily:

ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: 2

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
2c2s9cTsJc	45.32%	135,708	406,197	2,463	0	0
Ah*h***	54.68%	191,340	191,340	2,463	410,731	0

Buzz