Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Souleh

As a new player to 08 (less than 500 hands) should I be sitting at the micro 6max games or full ring? Or better yet would I be better sitting HU?

In my humble opinion, full ring is probably best for you as you learn the game.

I think you have to learn how to play tightly. Being able to play tightly when prudent requires self discipline and is easier for some than others. My idea is you start out playing very tightly, squeaky clean tightly, as you learn, and then gradually expand your range of starting hands. You can't do that heads-up, and I don't think you even can do that in six max.

As a beginner to Omaha-8, voluntarily play only about ten per cent of your starting hands, just the ones that tend to make the nuts on the river. A2**, A3** with a suited ace, AA**. Just that group. Fold everything else.

Carefully watch what your opponents do and take notes about your opponents. You especially want to know how tenacious they are, in addition to the obvious how aggressively and how tightly they play. If you can figure out what hands they seem to voluntarily play as starting hands, and how they react to raises at various stages and from whom, that's good note material too.

Be aware that Omaha-8 is quite a different poker game than Texas hold 'em. The general principles of poker apply to both games, but the emphasis in how some principles are applied is somewhat different in Omaha-8 than in Texas hold 'em. That should be, and probably is, obvious. But old habits, especially winning habits, are hard to break.

Your primary goal during the initial learning period should be learning how your opponents play. Thus when you're not playing a hand yourself, you should be carefully observing your opponents to learn how they play.

Since you're already a successful Texas hold 'em player, I imagine you already observe your opponents. I imagine you already either do or don't enjoy watching your opponents and trying to figure out how they play.

In my humble opinion, it's hard work to observe your opponents. But it's not as much of a chore if you enjoy watching how they play. I happen to enjoy watching how people play and I happen to enjoy trying to figure out what they're thinking.

If you don't enjoy watching how they play, watching what works for them and what doesn't work, then maybe you'll never figure out how to beat them enough to be long term successful at this game.

That's my idea. Other people have different ideas. If you do it my way, as a beginner to Omaha-8 you'll be passing up lots of playable hands. As a beginner, you'll be leaving cash behind on the table.

But I think you'll learn some self discipline, I think you'll learn the fundamentals of the game and I think you'll become a better observer of your opponents - and I think all three of those are important for long term success.

On the other hand, if you can hit upon some way to play to consistently beat your opponents, do that. Do whatever works for you.

Where you have a specific question, post a hand history here in this forum. Make sure you include your question. Try to be as specific as possible. You'll get various perspectives. It will take you a while to learn who to believe.

Different successful Omaha-8 players who post here have different successful strategies. Alas, we also have unsuccessful Omaha-8 players who post advice. Sometimes that advice is right and sometimes it's wrong. (That's probably also true of successful Omaha-8 players, but their advice is more likely to be correct than those who are unsuccessful). It simply is up to the reader to learn who to believe.

I'm a winning play at NLHE HUSNG and Cash (by far mostly HUSNG) and I believe HU has improved my ring game abilities and hand reading just a ton more than playing 6max ever did. Does this same principle apply to 08?

I don't know what "principle" you're talking about. Do you mean will heads-up play improve your ring game play more than six-max will? If so, I think heads-up play may cause you to focus on individual opponents more than multi-opponent play will - and I think if you originally were unable to focus on individuals in your multi-game play, focusing on individuals in heads-up play may ultimately help your multi-opponent play.

But obviously, once you have learned how to focus on individuals, six-max play more resembles full-game play than heads-up play does.

Is there even much action in 08 HU or is it just regs like LHE?

I don't know. I could guess, but your guess is probably as good as mine. Perhaps someone else reading this knows.

Finally are 08 HUSNG worth playing or are they a total crap shoot like PLO HUSNG?

I have not played any pot-limit Omaha-high-only sit 'n go tournaments. Are they total crap shoots? I wouldn't know. Omaha-8 play seems quite different to me than Omaha-high-only play. In addition, fixed-limit Omaha-8, pot-limit Omaha-8, and no-limit Omaha-8 all also seem quite different to me (although obviously some general poker principles apply to all three of these).

Buzz

[DeucesNeverLoses]

I have PT3 for holdem and I really like that program, and I also have PTO. Does PTO have a 3bet PF% stat like PT3 or do I need a diff program. Currently I am playing HUDless around 4-6 tables usually and just crushing, I have PokerAce HUD, but I'm kinda lazy on setting that up, is there a newb FAQ/startup thing for that as well? Thanks.

-DNL

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by DeucesNeverLoses

I have PT3 for holdem and I really like that program, and I also have PTO. Does PTO have a 3bet PF% stat like PT3 or do I need a diff program.

I don't know. Their on-line site says PTO has the same features of PT3.
http://www.pokersoftware.com/pokertracker-omaha/

Currently I am playing HUDless around 4-6 tables usually and just crushing, I have PokerAce HUD, but I'm kinda lazy on setting that up, is there a newb FAQ/startup thing for that as well?

Not that I know of.

Buzz

[niss]

Why not just upgrade to PT3 for Omaha? The HUD works pretty much automatically. Not a whole lot of set up.

[ECDub]

I wanted to get some tips for NL O8. There is not much I could find searching. Should I use the same information for pot limit and apply it to the game and adjust as I go? I play limit O8 now, but have just started playing nl a lot more. I wanted to get more information on the game if its out there. Thanks.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by ECDub

I wanted to get some tips for NL O8. There is not much I could find searching. Should I use the same information for pot limit and apply it to the game and adjust as I go?

No. At least not exactly. There are some general poker principles that more or less apply to all games. And there are some general Omaha-8 principles that more or less apply to fixed-limit, pot-limit, and no-limit.

But the play is different for fixed-limit, pot-limit, and no-limit.

You always need to adapt your play to your specific opponents. Exactly how well you're able to do that is a measure of your poker skill. All the poker games more or less have that in common.

In pot limit you often might calculate how much of your stack to bet so as to be able to push all-in on the third betting round and deprive a drawing opponent of the implied pot odds needed for his draw. And you might look at your opponent's stack and figure how to prevent your opponent from doing the same to you. Pot-limit Omaha-8 thus is a very strategic game.

The good news is you don't have to worry about that in no-limit. Regardless of the amount in the pot, you can shove all-in at any time.

The bad news is your opponent can do the same, shove all-in at any time - and then you have to guess if your opponent is bluffing or semi-bluffing or not.

I play limit O8 now, but have just started playing nl a lot more. I wanted to get more information on the game if its out there. Thanks.

There are snitches here and there, but I know of no book devoted to no-limit Omaha-8 play.

Post some hand histories, if you like. One hand per post, please. And ask a question or two with each hand history posted. You'll probably get some decent, thought provoking responses.

Look through the no-limit threads already posted in this forum. All the threads devoted to no-limit play should have thread titles that specify "no-limit" (or "NL"). They're easy to find.

Buzz

[SPEWGO]

Hi. What in your opinion is the best site which offers rakeback for playing low stakes fixed limit omaha hi lo? The obvious answer is probably Full Tilt. Unfortunately I have a non-rakeback account at Full Tilt, before I realised the benefits of rakeback. I have accounts at Absolute and Cake but there are never any fixed limit omaha hi lo games running. Thanks.

[Tarvaris]

Originally Posted by SPEWGO

Hi. What in your opinion is the best site which offers rakeback for playing low stakes fixed limit omaha hi lo? The obvious answer is probably Full Tilt. Unfortunately I have a non-rakeback account at Full Tilt, before I realised the benefits of rakeback. I have accounts at Absolute and Cake but there are never any fixed limit omaha hi lo games running. Thanks.

If you didn't sign up through an affiliate you still might be able to get rakeback. Try e-mailing rakeback pros, which is the site that gives rakeback to pre-existing FT accounts. I'm not able to answer your question though, because I only play at FT & PS right now. I imagine FT is by far your best bet with the combination of low limit FL08, rakeback, and site traffic. Good luck.

[Souleh]

Hey Buzz thanks for the detailed reponse.

I have another question, for the totally new player like me are there any good books or video series anyone knows of?

Right now my entire game consists of playing ring games and super tight only playing top 15% of hands and trying to think a lot about ranges on each flop, but i feel like there's a ton going on in the game i just cant recognise and a good video/book introduction to omaha8 would help me.

[tankgirl]

I'm not a total beginner at plo8, as I've played a fair amount of unl 6max on betfair, but this was only 'messing around'.

I have recently taken to the plo8 rush game on ftp.

I have no real 'book knowledge' of plo8, I don't have the Deppen book, nor have I seen any vids.

For me, the game seems to revolve around having a 2 in your hand, and as such i'll often try and play hands that hit better lows vs nit players who will have a2 a lot. In addition to this, I'm potting turn and river a lot vs players i think have a mediocre low only (I am bluffing with literally zero equity a lot - is this ever ok?)

I will try and get my strong hi only hands hu pre by raising, and will most often fire again as it's hard to flop a low.

Other than this, I'm completely lost, though I seem to be having good results.

Anyone have any general tips to improve my play, and does anyone playing plo8 rush have any specific tips for the format?

[StrikeR300]

I am bluffing with literally zero equity a lot - is this ever ok?

Opponent & Pos. Dependant IMO, & a lot sounds like a bit to much.

Other than this, I'm completely lost, though I seem to be having good results.

Interesting post, given good results.

Anyone have any general tips to improve my play

Read this forum, & post hands. PAGING: Wackjob for possible RUSH PLO8 specific tactics.

[WTFseeeb8]

Originally Posted by tankgirl

Anyone have any general tips to improve my play, and does anyone playing plo8 rush have any specific tips for the format?

Take regular breaks. Like play 1hour (assuming u do 4 tbls) take a 10min break, repeat. Take notes. The player pool is pretty small compared to nl/plo rush so u gonna play more hands vs the same players regulary.

[SexOnOmahaBeach]

screenname please.

[astrobel]

If you don't tilt this might be the game for you.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by tankgirl

For me, the game seems to revolve around having a 2 in your hand, and as such i'll often try and play hands that hit better lows vs nit players who will have a2 a lot.

I don't think the game revolves around having a deuce in your hand.

In high/low split pot games, in general, high cards beat middle and low cards for high while low cards beat middle and high cards for low. It's just that simple.

Deuces are thus good low cards. However, deuces are not generally very good cards to have for winning the high half of the pot.

Note that low is only possible for 3/5 of the hands played. In actual real full table and six max games, someone actually qualifies for low roughly half of the time.

But someone wins the high half of the pot 100% of the time.

Instead of a deuce, if you had to choose the most important card in the deck, it would be an ace. Easily. An ace is the highest high card and also the lowest low card.

But note very carefully that you must use exactly two cards from your hand to make either a high or a low. If you're going to play Omaha-8, you should start thinking in two-card combinations, rather than about single cards. Thus if you are dealt
A,2,5,9 as a starting hand, your hand has six two card combinations:
• A,2,
• A,5,
• A,9,
• 2,5,
• 2,9, and
• 5,9.

Before you see the flop, the first and third of these,
• A,2 and
• A,9,
are the best two card combinations in your starting hand and the second of these
• A,5, is the third best two card combination in your starting hand. Note that all three of these have an ace.

The other three two card combinations are relatively poor. Note that two of them have a deuce.
• 2,5 is not absolutely horrid, but is not considered good, even though it has two wheel cards, including a deuce.

Everything may change after the flop.

In addition to this, I'm potting turn and river a lot vs players i think have a mediocre low only (I am bluffing with literally zero equity a lot - is this ever ok?)

Yes if not overdone.

I will try and get my strong hi only hands hu pre by raising,

Bad idea, in my humble opinion. I realize some recommend it and I agree one should mix up one's play somewhat.

and will most often fire again as it's hard to flop a low.

I understand what you mean, but it doesn't make good sense to me. Seems like a very reckless way to play the game. It's a tactic that probably works better in Texas hold 'em than in Omaha-8. You will tend to terrorize the table playing that way, and if your opponents are stupid enough they may never catch on. But I don't think that tactic will work well, except as an occasional change of pace, against good opponents.

Other than this, I'm completely lost, though I seem to be having good results.

Do whatever works for you. Aggressive play is recommended, but overly aggressive play is not, even though you'll have some good results sometimes with overly aggressive play.

Anyone have any general tips to improve my play, and does anyone playing plo8 rush have any specific tips for the format?

Post some hand histories here and you might get some good feedback. One hand history per thread, please, and include a specific question or two. You'll get better answers to your questions if you don't overwhelm us with too much in one thread or post.

Buzz