Villain very new to the table no reads.

I don't play much MTTs these days so you can advise on sizing pre/hand selection if you want but more interested in post flop.

Flop: I kinda don't know about my flop lead. When I lead here I am trying to think of hands that have good/better equity that I fold out or worse hands that I am getting value from that I couldn't on latter streets anyway (e.g worse flush draws). I don't think this is a bad hand to put into my check back range here OOP. Thoughts?

I believe I led generally because it seemed like a decent semi-bluff opportunity/spot to win the hand there and then with. My sizing does look weakfish retrospectively. I guard against sizing tells in general so this looks bad.

Turn: I really don't know what to make of villains lead here and his sizing confuses me. He snap led as well on the timing front. Also holding a blocker the straight seems less likely, and most players in this Omania wouldn't either be pot controlling for a safe turn on the flop or have this sizing on the turn when the safe card hits.

River: Villain tanked for about 20 secs then just jammed. Sometimes, this is a time tell in itself with the nuts but added to the flop turn info it seems like he might genuinely have been thinking.

I think the problem is, even if he is turning showdown hands into bluffs, such as turned two pairs with flush draws (K2**) or turned 22** with clubs, I am losing to those anyway so river fold seems fine. I kinda think most in a vacuum would just show those down normally.

I am trying to think of worse two pairs that he turns into bluffs, but am struggling.

However, the thing I have is that with that SPR, I wouldn't be flatting the turn there, so it seems villain could just lead his whole range on the river and exploit my ass.

All thoughts appreciated.

Poker Stars $15.00+$1.50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Tournament - t400/t800 Blinds - 8 players - View hand 2486030
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: t2645 3.31 BBs
BB: t24912 31.14 BBs
UTG: t10376 12.97 BBs
UTG+1: t16107 20.13 BBs
Hero (MP1): t15387 19.23 BBs
MP2: t19193 23.99 BBs
CO: t12378 15.47 BBs
BTN: t7146 8.93 BBs

Pre Flop: (t1200) Hero is MP1 with Q 5 9 A
2 folds, Hero raises to t1666, 4 folds, BB calls t866

Flop: (t3732) K T 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t1600, BB calls t1600

Turn: (t6932) 2 (2 players)
BB bets t3200, Hero calls t3200

River: (t13332) A (2 players)
BB bets t13332, Hero folds

Pre: Sometimes I fold, sometimes I raise. Depends how much action I expect behind me. At a table where there are lots of players who "must" see the flop, this isn't the hand to try and exploit their poor hand selection with.

Flop: Interesting. You have a lot of a little. I like c-betting bigger on these types of flops if I decide to, but I understand if its an ABC opponent who isn't going to think much of the size if he whiffed. Getting check/raised would suck, but our hand looks better than it really is IMO.

Turn: Weird. Sigh call, I guess. I can see him holding all kinds of stuff, mostly 2-pair type hands. NFD won't usually do this and risk getting raised, unless he has qj to go with it. It feels weird, but I wouldn't mind a fold here against a lot of people.

River: Fold. I think it's a little too ambitious to assume he's turning 2-pair/set type hands into a bluff. It would be slightly different if you hadn't opened a hand in an hour and now AA is a huge part of your range, and I doubt he tries to bluff AAA after choosing the line that he did.

Iffy. You have the 3rd nut flush draw, a back-door nut spade draw, and any jack makes a Broadway (ace-high straight) for you. You also have the pair of nines. Not much.

But you have position and you have seen this flop heads-up against BB, who checks. I don't know how BB read your pre-flop raise. He might think your pre-flop raise meant you had A2** or AA**, neither of which fits this flop very well, and he might check this flop more or less expecting you to bet even without much of a flop fit. That's sort of what I'd expect if I were sitting in BB's shoes. But heads-up against BB, I'd expect to usually win (over 90%) if either the queen flush draw or the Broadway draw came through.

With two cards yet to come, you're going to make your flush or a Broadway something like 47% of the time. And you might win with two pairs, trips, a full house or even quads. I like your chances, should BB continue.

I agree.

I agree. But I think BB more or less expected you to probably bet your entire range. He might think you're probably bluffing or semi-bluffing and he might think he'll give you pause if he simply calls your flop bet.

And all that happens.

He might think if he gives you pause and then bets most turns, you won't know what to make of it.

And that happens too.

I can't read BB when he bets this turn. But now there's only one more card coming. Now we can count our outs. Assuming BB doesn't already have a king high straight (a possibility) we have 9 clubs, +3 non-club jacks, + 2 nines, +(optimistically) 3 aces. That's 17 outs total. Should we count queens too? That would make 20 outs.

With 17 outs, there are 27 bricks. With 20 outs, there are 24 bricks. (It adds up to 44 on the turn). If we have 17 outs, 17/44=0.386. That makes the hand odds against us 61.4 to 38.6, 1.6 to 1 against. Since the pot is 6932, I think we can call any bet of less than 6932/1.6=4333. BB bets 3200. OK I grimace hoping he doesn't already have a straight and that if he does, there's a club on the river... I grimace and I call.

Might be thinking or might be a fake. He has nothing to think about if he had the straight all along.

Thus betting immediately would seem to indicate he either has the straight or wants us to think he has the straight. However, if he really has the straight, then he wouldn't want us to think he does. Thus the hesitation would be phony, indicating he's been slow playing the straight all along.

But if he really has the straight, then why does he make that strange bet on the turn... maybe because he's afraid we'll check this turn?

Meh... putting it all together, it looks a lot like he has the straight... but maybe that's because he cleverly wants us to think he does.

Tough decision.

SPR = stack to pot ratio.

In BB's shoes, I'd put you on a draw. I don't know what the SPR has to do with it.

I think you have to decide whether or not BB really has the straight. He's played his hand cleverly either way.

I like Kroe_bar's reply.

But it's still a tough decision.

Buzz

Hello everyone. New here - was looking for a forum that discusses PLO8 MTTs and hopefully this one fits the bill.

I like the two responses from Kroe and Buzz. Just to add a twopennorth from me:

- Sometimes if I flop a vulnerable straight (here it would be QJ with no redraw) I elect to play it cautiously on the flop and may even fold depending on various factors like reads on opponents, size of any bet I am facing, number of turn cards that can be seen as safe, my own feeling about whether I am in a good general situation at the table and therefore able to wait for better spots. Then if the turn comes blank I feel better about betting knowing my opponent has only one card to hit the potentially massive number of outs. If your opponent here has this tendency, the play fits the bill (I am not paying too much attention to sizing).

- Timing may have been affected by actions on other tables. My own timing often varies according to the attention or lack of that I am paying to other tables at the time on my three screens. I may act quicker (like villain did on the turn) if I know what I want to do here and want to give some thought to stuff elsewhere. I may then find myself looking back to this table after thinking through the other situation and see the clock counting down and make my action again as quickly as possible to avoid timing out (but to the rest of the table it looks like I tanked).

If either or both of these factors are at play here then both your call on the turn and fold on the river are probably the optimal decisions. It is a big "if" though - impossible to tell.

Hello. Welcome to the forum. PLO8 MTTs are part of what gets discussed here. Any thread that involves only PLO8 is labeled with a .

Thanks.

Interesting. Thank you for your insight.

Buzz

Hey guys new to 2+2 and relatively new to PLO8 and FLO8 in general so go easy on me!

I don't mind raising pre in later positions with hands like these for the strong high and decent low potential. Without knowing villain at all, I tend to believe that people playing low stakes PLO8 are defending their bb to minraises too often which makes your actual hand tough to play when you don't smash which you often won't.

Flop: I like checking back. In FLO8 I prob bet because the main problem of blowing up a pot is giving you better odds to call later with weak highs where as In PLO8 you can get raised off your hand easier. You have a pretty nice draw for your starting hand and seeing a free turn AND cheap river is valuable. Obv betting and winning the pot right there is a good result but checking makes that impossible. I think it is best to play this hand passively and call call reasonable runouts.

Turn: I like a call here but his bet would likely be smaller if you had checked back flop. He likely bets around half pot so lets say he goes 1800 (instead of 3200) and pots river. You would save 3k (14+16) and be less torn about folding river.

River: fold.

I definitely think betting sets here is not a bluff. You could have AAxx with random clubs with your line but it's not unreasonable for him to play a set like his. Once he bets turn and you flat a set becomes the nuts IMO. He could have AQJx too and just wanted to see a safe turn before piling the money. The snap lead on the turn is confusing which makes me believe he has good equity in the hand and is willing to go with it.

Obviously playing the hand as raise, check back, call, fold is totally exploitable but in an PLO8 MTT I don't think you need to worry about playing unexploitably. I think the best thing to think about is saving chips and not putting in bets when you have marginal-decent equity.

Thanks for reading my first post guys! Let me know any feedback please!

Charney

Welcome to the forum, Charney.

But if Hero held AAxx, a set held by Villain loses.

Therefore, I don't think a thinking Villain bets a set (any more than any other missed draw) on the river.

This looks exactly like a flopped, slow played straight to me. (Possibly Villain also has redraws).

The other possibility is Villain is bluffing to represent a slow played straight. (I can't tell which).

I disagree.

That's a strong possibility.

Yes.

Another possibility is he doesn't know what he's doing.

I agree.

I disagree.

Thanks for your opinion.

Buzz

I agree with most of this....

Pre can definitely be dependent on the people behind you in this hand. With no real read I lean more on a fold/limp vs raising with still 3 people left to act with fold>limp. Our hand isn't as strong as it may appear to be, particularly on the low side.

Flop...yeah we sort of flopped a piece of meh, some of it. If we have the nut flush draw I like the cbet more than just a gut shot, 3rd nut flush possibility. I lean more toward a check, BUT a cbet isn't horrible. Bet sizing is a bit small imo.

Turn is gross. Is A22x, KK2x, AK2x and others that have us beat in his range? Most likely. His sizing is weird as it appears he is repping 22xx here or even K2xx but I live to fight another day. What happens when a low club comes and he jams?

As played I like the fold on the river. We beat some air, but there are some hands in his range that has us beat. I'd rather fold incorrectly here then call light too often to get into that bad habit when we still have an ok stack size to fight another day (not great but still playable).

Edit...now that I look at it closer calling turn seems more gross leaving us with about half stack...definitely folding turn.