Live 20: Good game, lots of multiway pots where people call raises.

Hand 1:
3 limps to me by loose players, I limp AK64 in CO?



Hand 2: half kill pot
I open AK24 UTG, UTG+1 calls, Killer (super-loose, and fairly aggressive) calls UTG+2, 3 more callers, BB solid TAG calls. BB seems reasonably solid and aware of how to play the game. His call is a little disconcerting because it's a half kill pot, so he only has 1/3 blind size.

Flop: Q83 (7 players, 14 sb)
BB checks, I bet, UTG+1 folds, Killer raises, 2 more callers, button folds, BB 3-bets.

His check-raise means either a big hand or a big draw. Basically stuff you would expect him to check-raise.

I call, Killer calls, 3 more calls.

Turn: 4 (6 players, 32 bb)
BB bets, I raise, Killer 3-bets. Folded back to BB who calls. I cap, Killer and BB call. Killer would 3-bet A2xx preflop, so I'm sure he doesn't have that. I'm not exactly sure what BB has, but he check-3-bet flop and then bet the turn, so I feel pretty comfortable with the nut low as I don't think he would do that with a bare A2. It's more likely to be a big flush draw or a flopped big hand (set?)

River: A (3 players, 44 bb)
BB bets. I call.

"LO8: Uncounterfeitable"
until the turn, unless you typed it wrong...

I like how you respect BB's game, but when he cold 3-bets seven million people oop and bets the turn that makes your nut low completely naked, you still raise...

if he cold 3-bets the K-high flush draw, he's not a solid TAG.
set? not after he bets the turn.

...and limp hand 1...

It was a joke, as clearly my "uncounterfeitable" low got counterfeited.

Well, he has to have exactly the A2xxhh for me to not have half the pot. On the turn I don't know he doesn't have the A, I think there are high only hands he could play this way, stuff like AXQQ. Or run down hands like AKJT, KQJT, etc. So basically combo hands or flush draws with pairs or gutshots. Maybe even hands like A4XX or A34X.

Thanks. I ended up making broadway 3-ways vs. another broadway where we both had nut flush redraws, and she looked at me like I was insane when I made a flush on the river with my 7-card flush.

She also folded (AKQJ) UTG once which I thought was wrong in a good game.

If that's who I think it is she's gonna look at you like you're insane every time her top set on the flop gets 'cracked' by wheel wrap + NFD +BDNFD+overpair

I think the benefits of calling on the turn (getting value from worse highs/worse lows/crap draws) outweigh the benefits of raising (straightup value with some scoop potential, promoting an unlikely high).

Generally I think, the nature of O8 requires less aggression on average then an expert Holdem player is used to.

I think you're right. I've been looking for spots to jam, as I think the top high and the nut low are supposed to be the ones jamming the flop/turn chopping up a 3rd/4th player, but this seems harder to do in practice than in theory. Or maybe my understanding is flawed, as it's probably the ones with the nut low and some draws/redraws or the nut high with redraws that should be jamming.

but:
1) you just have bare nut low. equity isn't very good.
2) the bettor is to your immediate right. you try to jam people in, not out.

Question on villain's line. Villain had A256. How do we feel about his play in the hand?

with six opponents already in, it's a shame not to 3-bet his hand preflop.
I like his flop play. he has a pulling hand with TAG hero (who raised UTG = strong range) to his immediate left. leading into hero wouldn't be very wise as I don't like any following scenario, whether hero calls or raises.

If I were villian, I would want many players putting in many bets after the flop.
check/raising achives this goal.
one might say that check/cold 3-betting the flop is too aggressive for his hand, which would probably be correct without knowing what we know about the killer.

he should defend his kill very liberally preflop and then iso-raise hero's flop c-bet fairly wide, being to hero's immediate left.
killer probably wants to see people folding, but two players already cold-called behind him when the action is back on BB.

in this particular spot, I believe BB should like his chances. if he figures to have more than 20% 5-handed, there is really no reason for him not to cold 3-bet there.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

99,070 trials (Randomized)

board: Q83

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
BB Ad2h5c6h	21.57%	2,801	8,990	844	11,202	46,222
hero (A2,QQ,88,33,Q8,Ahh,KK:hh,AA: (4,hh),A4: (hh,5)):12%	20.66%	5,542	15,391	1,352	1,930	39,464
killer (QQ,88,33,AA,A2,A4,hh,AA,KK,Q8,Q3,83,JT9,AQ):5%-75%	21.59%	10,946	29,708	1,218	418	2,413
cold-caller (A2,A4,Q8,Q3,83,QQ,88,33,hh,AA,KK,AQ,JT9):30%	18.09%	7,958	20,894	1,479	1,560	11,831
cold-caller (A2,A4,Q8,Q3,83,QQ,88,33,hh,AA,KK,AQ,JT9):30%	18.09%	7,884	20,951	1,457	1,589	11,809

Thanks str8. I'm not sure if there's a reason why you have hero's range include only the stronger stuff and not the cold-callers range. I would guess that a cold-caller would have a stronger range than hero (who may just be c-betting any A2xx, etc.). If I strengthen the cold-callers to be more restrictive like hero's (where AA/KK have to include ) and where they are not cold-calling with A4 --

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

82,686 trials (Randomized)

board: Q83

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
(A2,QQ,88,33,Q8,Ahh,KK:hh,AA: (4,hh),A4: (hh,5)):12%	19.60%	4,576	11,559	1,163	2,036	32,582
(QQ,88,33,AA,A2,hh,AA:hh,KK:hh,Q8,Q3,83,JT9,AQ):5%-75%	21.70%	9,288	24,945	1,077	197	2,011
(A2,Q8,Q3,83,QQ,88,33,hh,AA:hh,KK:hh,AQ,JT9):30%	19.48%	6,862	18,850	1,405	907	12,662
(A2,Q8,Q3,83,QQ,88,33,hh,AA:hh,KK:hh,AQ,JT9):30%	19.56%	7,016	18,800	1,363	921	12,747
Ad2h5c6h	19.66%	1,524	5,690	758	8,079	40,935

I agree with you that villain donking would be pretty poor and doesn't accomplish anything. I think his only decision is whether to check-call or check-3bet. I'm actually not that big of a fan of the 3-bet, as his flush draw is pretty small (I think you can assume it's the nut low flush draw for all practical purposes), and 5-way I think the odds are that there is a higher flush draw out there, just probability-wise. The backup counterfeit low protection is actually the best part of his hand IMO.

I'm starting to realize that more and more. Just read another chapter of Zee's book where he says aggressive players are better suited to LHE and Stud, whereas passive players are better suited to LO8.