Cliff notes:

-People don't know how to read their hands and some dealers don't either
-You can profit from this, but should you?

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The live LO8 game I play at in the casino is super soft and extremely profitable (Just a 4/8 1/2 kill game that's super loose spew-passive)...and I've come across a poker/life morality situation a few times now:

-The hand comes to the river and you flip over your cards indicating a winning low for 1/2 the pot, and a tying high for 1/4 of the pot.

-The dealer, opponent, and everyone else does NOT see that you are only winning 3/4 and all believe you are scooping the pot.

-Do you...announce that your opponent has the same hi hand and lose money or keep to yourself?

Things to consider:

-It's the dealer's and player's responsibility to read the board and read their hand.

-Karma/being honest/not cheating the game (but is this really a form of cheating?)

A few example hands that happened to me recently:

Board reads out on the river:

5 6 7 K Q

Hero flips over A 3 4 8

Opponent flips over A 4 8 K

Dealer announces "Ace-3 low, 3-4 makes a straight"

Opponent says "Yep, that's a nice hand" (obviously missing the fact that they have a tying 4-8 for a straight)

Do you...tell the truth about the hand or scoop the pot?

Hand 2:

Board reads out on the river:

3 5 T 6 J

Hero flips over A 2 4 K

Opponent flips over 2 4 5 6

Hero announces "Nut low and straight"

Dealer announces (to the opponent) "Let's see what you have...you have a deuce four low and 2 pair...anything else?"

Another player at the table announces "Nope, just two pair, you scoop (looking/pointing at me)"

Dealer says "Yes, that's a scoop"

It's kind of an awkward situation for me to be in...what would you guys do?

Thats a crazy situation. I understand both parts of where you are coming from. Poker side of you: "Don't say a word". The honest guy you're away from the poker table "wants to point it out". That is a very tough question. I would point it out. Call me a nice guy lol.

I doubt any 4/8 live game with high rake is "extremely profitable"...

what about "getting away with not killing?"

i would correct the dealer/opponent the first couple of times (but not tip), then decide i don't do the dealer's job until i get an hourly+tips.

thats a pretty blunt way to put it, but I agree!

The funny thing is that if you were to run this scenario through the monte Carlo machine a million times half would say something and half would keep their mouth shut.

Go with your gut. I prefer the nice guy approach myself....

I think you have to be honest in this situation. If there is any suggestion that the opponent has mucked, that would change it. However, the players at the table have a right to expect the dealer to make the correct call - especially at these stakes where many players are very light-hearted in their approach.

The thing is, sooner or later, no matter how sharp you are, you're going to misread your hand in live LO8. And it will happen more than once. And you can bet that if the dealer doesn't see it, most of your opponents won't point it out either.

If I'm playing with guys I like, or with the 9 most honest poker players in the world, I'll point it out. But under normal circumstances it's just another leak because nobody is going to do that for you.

It's never a sin in poker to keep your mouth shut.

If you read the B&M forum, you'll see that this question seems to get asked a lot, and the response is that it's each player's obligation to ensure that the pot gets shipped correctly. While I prefer to be quiet and not risk violating "one person to a hand", I will always speak up if I see that the pot is being awarded incorrectly after a showdown and all hands have been tabled (the tabling of cards is important).

There is also something to be said about playing the game honestly. While of course not everyone at the table may be as honest as you, personally I sleep better at night knowing that I treated people fairly.

Lastly, in live O8 it is more often than not (at least in AC) that the dealers deal O8 infrequently and are decidedly mediocre at it. Unfortunately, if someone competent doesn't help them read the hands you will be there all day.

Good question.

My answer for me is "no."

I announce it. My integrity matters to me.

I tell the truth about the hand.

I would make the correction.

Buzz

I got to thinking about this.

I used to play golf. Usually there would be some wager involved. Sometimes someone (including me) would whack the ball into a sand trap that was out of view of the rest of the group (usually four of us). There are all kinds of things the golfer hidden from view of the others could have done, including grounding the wedge, not counting all the strokes, or just tossing the ball onto a favorable spot on the green.

But that's not how you play golf. You play by the rules and trust the others in the foursome to do likewise. And I think everyone did.

You meet some real sleeze bags in public casinos, but you don't have to drop to their level and basically become a sleeze bag yourself. You can still show some class, part of which involves being honest and forthright.

Take the high road.

Buzz

I agree with this. Be as sneaky as you like within the rules and spirit of the game, but don't gain some advantage that is nothing to do with how well the game is played.

A slightly less clear cut case involved my playing (as a relative novice) in the World Diplomacy Championships some years ago. I missed a bracket off on one of my orders. It was very clear what I intended, but the syntax was not quite right. With that one missed bracket I went from a solid position to completely losing (and a key ally also was pretty much done in by it).

I felt this was against the spirit of things, as everybody at the table knew exactly what I intended. One expert took advantage of his knowledge of the rules to his advantage in what I thought was a slightly unethical way.

I have never failed to make sure the pot is awarded correctly in this situation.

Yes, **** em if they can't read their hand. It's enough work just trying to read your own hand. Plus it slows down the game. And I don't believe in karma.

Generally, I want the pot shipped to the correct people. If I see a dealer start to ship the pot to the wrong person, I say something. If I'm wrong, it slows up the game for a few seconds as the dealer explains to me - no, there isn't a straight (or whatever I misread). If I'm right, I feel like I've protected the integrity of the game.

One reason I say something is that I've seen several times that some of the pot got shipped to the wrong person. As the person is stacking chips, THEN the player who was shortchanged realizes it and says "Hey, I had a straight!". Then they have to reconstruct the hand to determine the pot size, or call the floor, or something else that will slow up the game quite a bit, which I would prefer not to happen.

As for golf, I always call penalty strokes on myself when deserved, even if no one is looking.

Say nothing.