I am familiar with how equity sims work, thank you.

But the value in a big bet game is based on the number of big bets we win. Its much easier to win more bets with aaa5.

Isn't this a limit O8 thread?

AA89r and AAA5r seem pretty similar in strength to me; you want to isolate the pot heads-up with them if you can, but potentially fold them if you know the pot will be multi-way.

That said, I don't think it is all that useful to extensively debate how to play any AAAx. You'll get dealt AAAx very rarely, it won't be all that profitable regardless, and there aren't really any other hands like it that you could use it to generalize about. I think you could auto-fold every time you got any trips in the LO8, and it wouldn't really hurt your bottom line.

Yup LO8. 3 times as strong, miles above and much easier to win more bets.

It is.

In a way, but I think Hero can legitimately play AAA5r more strongly. Having that extra ace eliminates the chance you're up against another hand with a pair of aces. With AA89r, if you're up against another hand with aces, you could be ahead, but you're probably not. Here's the sim:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
AsAh8d9c	44.39%	68,505	108,009	363,778	76,590	30,569
AA**	55.61%	104,761	128,213	363,778	183,426	30,569

I still remember, probably from ten years ago, getting all in early with AA89 and bumping heads with an opponent who had a better AA**.

Brutal.

I can understand that point of view, but for me, it really depends on the board and the opponent(s).

Agreed and true.
You'll probably get dealt AAAx about once every 1,410 hands.
(From C(52,4)/4/48=270,725/192=~1,410).

Buzz

Okay, since no one has posted a hand, I have a hand in 4/8 LO8 that I played the other day. It was AhAdKsJh. I was in the MP. I just limped. Is this the correct play with this hand or should I have raised. 5 people are in the hand (buttone, SB, BB,Co, and me) On the flop came As5d7h. Now I have top set, but no low draw. SB bets, BB calls, I just call. CO calls and button calls. Should I have raised? Or is a call the correct play? The turn brings 8c. so low gets there and a possible straight. Again SB bets and BB calls. I decide to fold, since I have no low draw. CO and Button calls. I think this was the correct play. Anyway the turn comes 2d. Ends up the CO had 34K10. He scoops because SB was raising with a set of 5s. I guess I should have raise PF perhaps I would have gotten rid of the CO? Anyway, just thought maybe this was a good hand to discuss.

AAKJ

I don't think that's a great hand for Omaha-8. The problem is it has no low.

Of the six two card combos within the hand,
AA,
AK,
AJ,
AK,
AJ, and
KJ,
I like two (AA and AJ). The others are nothing to write home about. (Any two cards can win in Omaha).

But although it's not a great hand (mainly because it has no low), it's certainly a very playable hand. So I certainly want to see the flop with it.

Raise or not? I cannot say (because I don't know your opponents).

It's not clear to me. However, I don't see a reason to raise. I'd probably just limp.

A57.

Well... low is there (which is not good for you). But you have top set plus a backdoor nut heart draw plus a backdoor Broadway (ace high straight) draw. Even though low is there, I would want to play this.

We're looking at three aces but four of your opponents have seen the flop. At least three of them (maybe all four) saw this flop without an ace.

I like a raise better than a call. I don't think a raise will knock out anyone holding the nut low, and you might have a couple of opponents sitting on 23**. (That is, they don't have aces, maybe they have 23**). Will a raise knock out anyone I want knocked out, or will a raise knock out only non-nut low draws? (I don't know... but I probably would raise here).

Low was there after the flop.
A578

Someone needs 96** or 64** for the straight. 64** is more likely than 96**. 32** or 42** is more likely than either (I think).

If you continue, you're drawing for the board to pair, but with top set, you may face a tough decision on the river if the board doesn't pair.

Hm. Need to know more about SB, BB and their interaction to reach any conclusion. Could be SB is simply too aggressive and maybe stupid on top of it. Could be SB has flopped the nut low (with 23**). Not impossible for SB to have something he likes for high, maybe a straight, set, two pair, or less. Could be BB has also flopped the nut low and recognizes SB also has the same thing.

And CO and BTN are yet to act. Hm.

If you play this purely as a high draw, planning to fold if the river doesn't pair the board, and if neither CO nor BTN raises on this third betting round, it will cost you one big bet if you miss, and if the board does pair, maybe you'll make 3 big bets.

So playing this as a draw, assuming neither CO nor BTN raises behind you, I think you're getting about 3 to 1 implied half-pot odds.

And the odds against the board pairing on the river, from your perspective, are about 34 to 10.

So if you play this as a draw (for the board to pair on the river) you'd have to be getting better than 3.4 to 1 implied half-pot odds. Thus you do not have favorable odds to play this as a draw.

But you'll still have top set, which may win for high. However, if you play the hand that way, intending to continue to showdown whether the board pairs or not on the river, then instead of 3 to 1, you're only getting 3 to 2 implied half-pot odds. (Because calling on the river too will cost you twice as much).

And you don't know whether or not CO or BTN will raise.

So it looks to me like you made a good fold, odds wise.

You mean SB was leading with a set of fives.

I don't know. Maybe.

I agree.

Buzz

I would certainly raise this preflop if it folds to me in MP. I can see overlimping if there are other limpers in front of me. It seems like a hand I would like to get more money in the pot with if I think I can get it heads-up, but would prefer to see a flop cheaply (hopefully a high one!) if it I aready know it will go multiway.

I think raising the flop is fine, but I would tend to just flat-call and raise a safe turn card.

I wouldn't consider an 8 a "safe" turn card, but I'm definitely not just going to fold this hand for one more bet. I don't even know why you would put the SB on a straight given that he bet out the flop. Folding given that action is pretty terrible IMO.

Mostly what Nick said. With limpers i would still raise if i'm in late MP and esp if there's already few limpers.

For this hand the flop is still decent and turn just isn't threatening enough nor is the amount of action. With top sets at times you need to careful when there's a likely wrap, flush draw and/or a made low or draw, but this flop only qualifies for the made low part.

Thanks everyone for their advice. It was very helpful. After reading everyone's thoughts, I see I did play the turn badly. Also, my apologizes for when I mess up the terminology. Thanks for correcting me Buzz!

But this does help me with my play a lot. Hopefully, more people will post their AAxx hands on here. I have found it very informative.

i ll give it a shot... tournament hand, didnt play it all that great. was even considering hard mucking it preflop due to position and bad exp with hands like these...


Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+2: 22.39 BB (VPIP: 54.00, PFR: 6.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 50)
CO: 110.69 BB (VPIP: 14.55, PFR: 5.45, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 55)
BTN: 75.24 BB (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 55)
SB: 62.1 BB (VPIP: 40.91, PFR: 22.73, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 22)
BB: 41.97 BB (VPIP: 70.59, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 17)
UTG: 14.92 BB (VPIP: 39.58, PFR: 12.77, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 48)
Hero (UTG+1): 77.75 BB
MP: 25.67 BB
MP+1: 27.54 BB (VPIP: 21.82, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 55)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7 9 A A

fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 1.5 BB, BB calls 1 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 3 players) Q 9 3
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 6 BB, SB calls 6 BB, fold

Turn: (18 BB, 2 players) Q
SB checks, Hero bets 6 BB, SB calls 6 BB

River: (30 BB, 2 players) K
SB checks, Hero checks

SB shows J 8 K K (Full House, Kings full of Queens)
(Pre 26%, Flop 27%, Turn 15%)
Hero mucks 7 9 A A (Two Pair, Aces and Queens)
(Pre 74%, Flop 73%, Turn 85%)
SB wins 30 BB


its a bad beat (little one, a bad pinch) and i thought i pretty much knew where i was in the hand, but cant shake the feeling i played it wrong... Potting preflop would have likely gotten me the blinds, but i want a pot to build if and when i hit the flop.
A big raise on any street would have likely driven me out. Even pre. Got me thinking on these AAmediumjunk hands and throwing em preflop. Got me forumdigging. Got me here. I would like to know your thoughts

Looks like you're probably playing pot-limit (no-limit is the other possibility). That's OK, but I thought this thread was about limit O8 (also called fixed-limit O8). I'll leave it up to Matt_PBA (the originator of this thread) whether or not I should move your post and responses to it to a separate thread. In the meanwhile, I'll respond to your post.

7 9 A A is a nice, playable starting hand. The features I like are the pair of aces and the suited A. And it can make a low, albeit a poor one. The features I don't like are the two middle cards.

Anyhow, you're out of position, but you raise on betting round #1 anyhow and it works out for you. (You knock out everybody behind you and end up having position on the blinds). And now you're betting this flop after two checks. Looks right to me.

But SB calls. So I'm wondering if SB is a ****ing idiot or if he has some connection with this flop, perhaps a queen or a heart draw. Since we have the A, he can't have the nut heart draw... and that makes his hand look more like it probably has a queen, maybe as a set or two pairs. And due to your pre-flop raise, he might put you on a pair of aces. So if he does have a queen, and if he reads you correctly for the pair of aces (because of your pre-flop raise), he might well have flopped two pairs.

I'd tentatively put him on two pairs, queens over. (Or he could be a ****ing idiot).

Ouch!!!

Dong, dong, dong, dong. (That's the alarm going off). I haven't read any further, but I think we're looking at queens full.

Possibly setting the hook...

You bite! You're braver than I am! (I'm reading him for queens full or idiot).

Doesn't mean he doesn't have queens full.

Good move!

Wow! So he's a ****ing idiot who got lucky on the river.

Nothing you can do about that.

Nice check behind on the river!

I don't think so. This idiot would call with his pair of kings.

You have a nice starting hand, but you still like support on the flop... an ace... two or three spades... maybe something else. But you didn't get it. You tried stealing the pot with your aces, but Bozo didn't read you for aces and thought his kings might be good.

Tough luck. It happens.

Buzz

Hero bets 6 BB,


i follow yr stream of thought almost to the letter... Its a valuebet bluff repping the boat in case he has fl dr, . Had to find out where i was... Turned out he wasnt the right guy to pull it on

thanks for the reply

Buzz, I am not against PLO8 hands. I would like to play it sometime, so I think it is okay on here. If it is okay with you, I am fine with it.

Muktuk2, I have no idea why the villain was even in the hand after your flop bet. From my limited knowledge, I think you played it well. You just had the bad luck of playing against bad player.