Hey there
I received so much negative feedback on my writing they stopped the thread lol.
I will now be converting all hands that i play on the net and also will be trying to write much clearer so that I don't cause any problems.
People were saying I needed a well so here it is!

A little background I'm 30 something, have played semi-professionally for 7 years and started off playing in underground games (eventually operating one myself) playing nl and pl hold em.

I established a good bankroll and began playing online (party and stars) but honestly couldn't possibly keep from monkey tilting. I'd build a roll lose a roll, repeat cycle.

I began playing o8 at commerce one night when I was too stuck to rebuy back into the 5-10 nl game. I played 4-8 w a hk and lost but was instantly
hooked!

I read everything I could get my hands on and would even ask ridiculous ?s to my opponents (which they loved I'm sure) and occasionally dealers. I drove everyone crazy.

I began playing on stars 2-4 6 max games and was amazed that I could actually win on the net. For the longest I thought the internet was completely fixed.

Where I knew nothing of proper bankroll management I made up for with crazy long sessions . I played 123k hands of 2-4 and 3-6 in 2 months and made 600$ I had no idea how to book a win without a table breaking or the sun would tell me it was morning.

I still play 20-40k hands a month online however for a lil' bit higher and I will be spotted playing 30-60 to 50-1 at la card rooms 2-5 nights a week when I'm in the area and the game gets off without props.

I'll post a hand once a week and it'll always be an interesting hand nothing ordinary and I will post results if anyone comes up with thought provoking actions post flop.

So hand 1 comes 20-40 live game tonight.
Middle position raiser
Button calls
Hero in sb A334 calls
BB folds
flop 3-d 4-d 10-s

I lead out and it is 3 bet!
Whats my line on these 2 and do I cap, fold or call?

Also if you see an error in my writing please try to just focus on the hands I've been posting for less than a month. I will continually try to improve on post quality if I feel I'm getting good feedback.

Where is the best action for the low-mid limit FLO8 in L.A.?

Do you ever play in the OE games?

Is it easier for you to control tilt online or live? And what progress have you made in terms of tilt management, say in the last couple of years?

Describe your BR management for the live FLO8 games that you play in... And what adjustments do you make relative to the degree of "kill" that's in place?

You are drawing to an underfull for 1/2 the pot on a draw heavy board... If you could see the next two cards cheaply, "maybe"... But it seems like you will have to put in a lot more bets now and later streets, so I FOLD. To me R/R is just not there.

Commerce is best for low limit o8 games everyday. They are overly aggro and will cause u a headache if you decide to gamble.
Once the lapc or legends comes you can pick and choose your limit of any game of course, anywhere in town.
The 20-40 at the bike gets off on the weekends and the hustler always has a game thur-sun 30-60 and up.
I'm not gonna say which is soft outright just read my hh's you'll figure them out in time.
Yes I play o.e. and if forced will play h.o.s.e even though stud hi is my weakest game for sure.
Controlling tilt is 1000 times easier live. I've dealt with tilt both live and online obv.
Live is slower so you can take a break, order food, go smoke, whatever.
When tilt occurs live all omaha and some stud players play more passively and way more hands.
So you take the need and want to play more hands and online tilt city occurs.
I used to have a friend who would set a daily goal and everyday he'd come within 5 bucks of hitting it and then viola.. he'd lose one hand and try n get that money back and then the next and 3 hrs later he'd have a broken laptop.

Alright heres my tilt control to anyone who's ever had huge online tilt problems. If you take a sick beat just sit out the next hand or round. I play 7-9 tables and i can always tell when I'm tilting I will quit every game simutaniously.
I have experienced tilt at all limits but nothing is worse than online tilt rushes. Where you have played terribly all day and suddenly you call 4 bets
with 2349 ns's from the sb and the flop is 993 and u scoop a huge pot that gets you within 500 or whatever.
Quit playing right then because your great success of the night was with 2349 just imagine how bad it's about to get.
Showers and movie theaters are good for those of you that lose it daily.
No one has ever talked highly of a break even player so forget chasing losses.
If non of that works set a time limit 2 hrs, 3 hrs whatever and if you still refuse to keep it.. quit poker. It's not for you

Bankroll management live is no different in my eyes. You need 300 bb's to play in a game comfortably so if you are playing a 30-60 hk game and you have 8k banroll just forget it. You are a fish the second you sit down with scared money. so hk games are easy to figure take the kill amounts and x300 them and figure out if you can play, is it a good game and what's your goal in this spot.

Hope that helped

Hi Eddie - I locked it, but then unlocked it at your request. Thanks. Interesting background (mostly not quoted). Thanks for sharing.

Just one question about it: What is "monkey tilting"? That's great. Thanks. Please don't put them all in this one thread. Should we assume your ace is not the ace of diamonds? I don't know if it will make a difference or not, but it seems to me that it might.

In any event, I'd like to know more about your opponents before trying to answer. (And I'm interested in what you think about what you should do).
I agree. Thank you and hopefully that will be the case.
"lapc" means "Los Angeles poker classic"? "legends" is another annual tournament? Are you talking about Omaha-8 games, or mixed games (perhaps rounds of Omaha-8 alternating with rounds of stud-8)?
Interesting observation. I don't understand what you mean by "you take the need." Seems like excellent advice. Thanks. I suggest "gambler's anonymous" for anyone who thinks he/she may have a problem with self discipline.

Good advice thus far. Thanks.

Buzz

Alright buzz-
Ty for great questions.

Monkey tilting is just an expression for uncontrollable tilt.

My ace is not the Ace of diamonds if i was suited in anyway that made the hand situation or thinking different I'd note it always.
As for my opponents in this hand, I knew very little about either as I only played in game for 2 and hf hrs. The hand happened in my 2nd round of playing.

Lapc is the LA poker classic and Legends of poker are both wpt events and brings a lot of action to the scene.

If a person asks about omaha 8 games I'll give them that info.
he asked about oe games which are half omaha 8 and hald stud 8.
OE is also malt liquor buzz.

When people are playing to get even or chasing a loss, they normally play more hands and the internet is perfect for this because you get so many more to play.

O.K.
20-40 live game.
Middle position raiser
Button calls
Hero in sb A334 calls
BB folds
flop 3,4,10
Let's make Hero's hand A,3,3,4.
I'm assuming it's a mixed game of Omaha-8 and stud-8. I think it matters whether or not it is, in terms of the type of players in the game. I realize that's very vague, but I'm trying to get the flavor of the game. I have another question related to getting the flavor of the game: How many players are seated at the table?

At any rate, Hero leads on the second betting round, MP raises, and Button makes it three bets! Yikes! Hero's own hand is not well defined. My first guess is these guys are trying to push Hero, and perhaps each other, out of the pot - and that they have wide hand ranges for this action. Thus it's extremely difficult to put them on cards. Either could have a nut low draw or a diamond draw (or both). And either could have a higher set.

Hero's hand held four takes away one of Hero's outs for the board pairing (and also reduces the probability MP or Button has a set of fours). It's unlikely Hero is up against a higher set. With two opponents, the probability of one of them having a higher set here, assuming neither is averse to 44YZ or TTYZ, is about 4.8%, something like that. So roughly one time out of twenty, without this action, Hero will be up against a higher set. But the action somewhat changes that value. (A flopped higher set is a more logical hand for a second-betting-round raise or re-raise than anything else).

I think Hero should either try to discern if he's up against a higher set or get out of the hand. Since it still seems more likely to me that there's some funny business going on than Hero is up against a higher set, I'd cap it. See if these guys both call, and go from there. I have a lot of thoughts at this point - too much to write down here, including suspicions of collusion.

At any rate, I'd make it four bets and see what the result of that is.

But this is your well. I'm interested in your thoughts on how to handle this tricky situation.

Buzz

Eddie:

Seeing that this is a Well, I feel it's Ok to ask a question about a diffferent type of poker game that is not O8.

You said that you play O.E. Do you care to give some pointers/insight to your stud8 game in which you feel gives you an edge? And/or, what are the pitfalls in this game (besides the obvious one like *always* playing the big pairs in bad spots) and how does one go about exploiting those weak areas.

I had been in this game for no longer than 20 minutes when the hand took place so i had very little reads or styles of my opponents to say what kind of game being loose or tight at that point.

It was a 8 handed omaha 8 game.

I disagree with capping here for 2 reasons.

First I have 10 or so cards that I'm insta folding to on the turn.
Any 2, 5 or dry diamond under 8 and under I have to muck.

Neither player is gonna fold to me capping and by doing so I'm only pricing myself further into check calling turn and river.

However I play to scoop pots so there is no way I'm folding here in this spot.

Second I would prefer to hide my hands strength.
I have 6 gin cards currently to where if the board pairs on the turn I am able to check raise and make both players pay dearly to get half or quarter of the pot if they're lucky enough to have a low come.

Heres my line on both opponents.

My initial raiser is continuation raising and he has a real hand for sure but i don't believe it's his flop so to speak so he wants to take this down asap.

He has AA-2-x or AA-5-x, he also may have the nut flush draw but he wants the pot hu as quickly as possible.

My re-raiser is trying to get pot control. He has a draw and he needs to get this raise to slow down the initial raiser and try to get me to come along or fold has no bearing on him.

It's harder to put him on a particular hand but he could have the k or q high flush draw with a low and seeking information to see where he's at or could be trying to buy a free card to help complete his draw.

As I stated he's a little tricker because he's willing to 3 bet here knowing that the initial raiser has a hand and my lead out ensures I'll be calling here 70% of the time. so his range is a little wider here are the most likely possibilities.

A-2-5-6
2-5-6-x with a flush draw
A-5-6-x with the nut flush draw
Or the the best for my hand 10-4-2-5

Either way I have a lot to dodge but I still like my chances.

Are there any cards that you fold to on the turn that I didn't mention? Is there any card you lead out or check raise on the turn I didn't mention?

I am not by any means an expert stud 8 player but i can tell you that I don't lose often at the game.

I don't play many multi way pots with high pairs and no back door low cards. I will fold qq-j normally if there has been a completed raise and a call following.

However I will bluff with high face cards in position against one or sometimes 2 low limpers just for steal attempt if they catch bad on 4th st. You must know your table before even thinking of this though.

I don't as a strict rule call non suited low cards that have no where to go.
Chasing half of something that isn't there is sure to keep you broke. Hands like 8-5-2 no suits and calling a raise from an ace, just save some time and money and muck.

I see more mistakes made with made hands in this game than any other.
If you are rolled up don't ever slow play with the exception of 9's, 10's and maybe j's and even then you should check raise on 4th street imo.

Also if you have AA-2 take control of the pot here don't overvalue how hidden your hand is.
Until you let your opponents know how good your hand is they'll continually play into that.
By 5th street your board could be aa-2-k-9 and your checkraise on 4th only looks ******ed to your 4 opponents with made lows or huge draws.

hands like 2-3-4 suited shouldn't be limping and hoping that no one makes it hard for you to complete your draw, pot control in this game is essential.

Hope i helped, I will try to think of more to say on stud 8 this wk so check the well.

As far as your opponents in the OE game, how do they compare, skill wise in the two games? In other words, which part is softer, O8 or S8?

Where was the game?

Buzz

It always depends on where the game is played and who's in your lineup. Many of the older players that play in mixed games have stud backgrounds because that was what was primarily played in the 80's and early 90's.
That doesn't make the omaha 8 games soft entirely either though.
It depends on how you think of a soft game I suppose. I think of a soft game personally as a loose gambling game where there are 5-6 players in a pot and don't necessarily notice that a few guys are just tightening up & winning a large amount of pots that they play.
Or a table where your opponents never switches his or her game up it's consistently the same.
Bellagio's 30-60 hk game is the only o8 game I've ever encountered where I've played with people who didn't know the rules or what not, that's not gonna happen often but if it does I'm playing like 60% of hands at that point.

Buzz why is that relevant?
Here buddy call around you can find a game yourself.
These are all omaha 8
Bicycle 5628064646 (6-12 hk game during week is very good for bankroll building)
Commerce 323-721-2100 (30-60 game going since last week still)
Hustler 310-719-9800 2 games currently 4-8 and 10-20

Buzz you don't seem to be getting the point of the well and your ?s are lacking substance. I asked you 2 ?s and you asked me where the game was?

If you would like to play w me buzz I'm on stars 15-30 and 10-20 game right now. I'll be at commerce this weekend and las vegas the 2-16 feb.

Why is it such an offensive question to ask where the game was? Furthermore, YOU don't seem to get the point of the well. A well is when people ask you questions about yourself and your game and then you answer them. It is not the teacher-student lecture method you are trying to go for.

Buzz is not only extremely helpful on these forums, but he trys to keep everything going in the right direction. You can safely assume that when he asks a question, it is probably a legitimate one. And you said:

So tell him where the game is, since you think it is important too.

Oh god no, i didn't take offense at all I'm sorry i came across that way.

I will answer all ?"s without a problem I just am not sure I'd wanna advertise games in a bad light. If I think a game is soft or a guy in a game is spewy I'd like to not share that with everyone. Sorry buzz if i was offensive in any way.

The game was at a private room I wasn't trying to be rude many apologies.

Btw I'd like to let everyone know I don't live in LA. I live about 1500 miles from there and have a father and sister who live there. I grew up in Mass.
When I was 15 my parents divorced and I moved with my mother to the mountains and my father moved to Long Beach.

I'm very lucky in the fact that I have the opportunity to visit with him every month and also get to play in the before mentioned card rooms.

I have played in almost every major card room from foxwoods (which I also can admit I lost a huge number there.. ugh) to many small underground clubs in Texas, Colorado, Utah and every major card room in Las Vegas and LA. With the exception of a few like golden nugget and Hawian Gardens.

I'd like to thank everyone on here as well. My desire to play has growingly become less recently especially on the net. Reading and posting on here has been a great thing and heightened my want to play.

This being my well can I ask questions as well?

Has anyone ever played farzad bonyadi online or live? I've been watching him on ftp for about a month and he seems to play lag but has many gears and is very solid.
I know durr beat him for 80k in a 30 min. session of 1k-2k.
But haven't seen him lose since.

Hi Eddie - You seem offended at my question (about where the $20/$40 pure Omaha-8 game was held). It was an innocent and natural question. I'm sorry if it offended you. No offense was intended.

I live in Los Angeles, am interested in Omaha-8 games in the area, and am interested in keeping up to date on the current state of Omaha-8 everywhere. Posters in this forum occasionally ask about L.A. area Omaha-8 games, and since I live in L.A., it seems like I should be able to answer their questions.

The phone references you gave are honestly not very helpful. You left out two casinos where I frequently play Omaha-8 and which usually have multiple tables of Omaha-8 at different levels operating.

More importantly, when I phone a casino, I tend to get a receptionist who doesn't give very accurate information about Omaha-8 games or tournaments. At least that's been my experience. I've called ahead of time to make sure there's a game of a certain type and then driven to the casino to play in that game only to find there's no game there of the type I expected after all.
This forum is a better source of information about local Omaha-8 games than the casino receptionists, at least in general. (That's just my opinion based on my experiences).
I thought the idea of a "well" is the host of the "well" gives an introduction (which you did very nicely, and I thank you for that) - and then the "well" host answers questions posed by others. That's my understanding of how "wells" on this forum have operated.

Otherwise, this is an open forum. Anyone can jump into a thread with a polite question, a polite answer, or a polite comment. People don't have private threads reserved for them only. My understanding of how the 2+2 forum-wide operating system functions is this forum would slow to a snail's pace snarl if that were the case. (I could be wrong about that).

When you have agreed to host a "well," anyone can ask you a polite question, answer one of your questions, or comment on something you have written.

That written, I did not realize you were addressing your questions specifically to me. I'll answer your two questions if you like:
No. Maybe. (For me it always depends on my opponents). Rightly or wrongly, and no offense intended, I would not play the hand the same as you. I already responded to your question: I responded to that question in a carefully thought out, somewhat analytical response - again no offense intended. I didn't feel like arguing with your rebuttal in your "well" because it occurred to me that you had a different agenda.

So I backed off. I didn't reply to your two questions because I was not sure they were specifically directed at me, and because I didn't want to post the statement "I would not play the hand the same as you" in your "well."

Buzz

Thanks for that, but no offense was taken. I appreciate your hosting a well and am interested to read about the lives and experiences of other Omaha-8 enthusiasts, and that certainly includes you. Absolutely, but I can't guarantee everyone will read them. (I read all the posts in this forum, but often don't respond, especially if (1) I either don't have a good response or if (2) I simply agree with another poster who has already given an excellent response).

Buzz

Buzz I'm very sorry again, I was far from offended or upset & truly didn't mean to come across rude at all.

As soon as I arrive in LA I head directly to commerce, if theres no game I begin calling around.

I can tell you theres nothing worse than being told theres a game or many games & arriving to find no omaha games. Especially when you don't know the area & the drive is long or rush hour.

buzz could you provide better #s and possibly better locations and limits they spread.

I heard from a reliable source (another player in the Omaha-8 game at Hollywood Park casino last night) that Hawaiian Gardens is spreading a $40-buy-in no-limit game. No-limit Omaha-8 can be whacko from my point of view, but I think I have to check it out, and I'll probably do that tomorrow. And if there's no $40-buy-in no limit table, I expect several (at least) other tables of Omaha-8 of various limits (because H.G.C. has been a Mecca for Omaha-8, with as many as six Omaha-8 tables of various levels running when I've been there) I'll also look in on the Bike, and Commerce on the way home and maybe play a few hands here and there. Breaks up the trip back from H.G.C. to the coast nicely to stop in a couple of casinos on the way home. And maybe the next day or the next, I'll check out the scene at Hustler, Normandie, and probably end up playing at Hollywood Park (because there's always at least one full table game of pure Omaha-8 running there). Something like that. I'll report my findings here in your "well."

Buzz

Please do! I tend to play fairly high so if you could ask if anything 50-100 or higher runs consistently.
I will play in combo games games that don't have triple draw, badugi or razz as well.
I'll transfer you a small ammount on any site for your troubles.
Ran ice cold & lost a large ammount tonight so will be absent from forum & net in general for a couple days.
just private message me & i'll give u aim adress so I can get u funds for the finding.

Thank you, but I'm not interested in your money. I'll check out the sites the best I can and report back to you on the open forum in this thread.

Buzz

What?!?

Hi Elindauer - This is Eddie's well. The idea of a "well" is you have a dialogue with the host of the well (Eddie, in this case).

Buzz

1 hand. no reads. We're only on the 2nd betting round. Collusion?!?!? Wow. I must be getting leveled, but somehow, I don't think so.

I mean... WHAT!!??!

Even if they were colluding... what a bad spot for a collusion 3-bet! It's almost impossible to know the mark is losing getting 2:1, and if they do know it, then they probably have such a lock on the hand that they want him around! It just makes no sense to suspect collusion here.

ok... I'm definitely getting leveled.

I wrote what I was thinking at the time. Live with it.

Buzz