Live 20/40, LO8

Villains are generally meh, not terrible, not expert. On the slightly loose side, and passive.

TAG limps UTG, TAG limps EP, very loose LAG limps LP, I call A36J otb, SB completes, BB checks.

SB is tight-passive, BB is extremely passive.

Flop: 76Q (6 players, 6 sb)
Checked around.

Turn: 6 (6 players, 3 bb)
SB bets and probably has a 6, a flush draw, or an overpair. BB calls, UTG calls, EP folds, LP calls, I raise???

SB thinks and calls, BB calls, UTG folds, LP calls.

River: 4 (4 players, 11 bb)
Checked to me and I bet???


My thoughts:
Preflop: this might be close to a raise

Flop: seems standard

Turn: nobody has a boat here, and it seems unlikely SB would check two pair on the flop, so I often have the best high and have the second nut low draw just in case. If opponents fold hands that have a ton of equity (straight draws, flush draws), fearing they're drawing dead, this is huge if I can get it HU or 3-way.

River: I obviously have a high, and nobody bet it, so I'm not too worried about A2. I have decent to strong hands both ways, so it's hard for me to get scooped here.

preflop: raise this one OTB! I don't care if the pope limped UTG!
flop: 6 players, ah? hmm, it's really close. o.k, so you checked...
turn: yes! nice raise!
river: bet again! don't check your strong two way hand after they all checked to you!
thought process: great! might be a little on the conservative side, though... think: "how do I use my positional edge to my advantage?"

[QUOTE=Captain R;33175840]Live 20/40, LO8


TAG limps UTG, TAG limps EP, very loose LAG limps LP, I call A36J otb, SB completes, BB checks.

I love how everyone "limps" but you "call"

I like every street.

I think this raise is a little thinner than you think. What is the limping range for a TAG in EP and what is our equity against that range? Seems like we're very frequently up against an A2/A3 there. Sure we're ahead of the LAG and the blinds, but I don't know if the raise has value in itself.

If anything I'd justify a raise to get a possible 4-card flop, but with a Lag in the hand that's iffy too.

You played it right...me personally I don't think I would've raised the turn but I'm a tight and conservative player, I would've just called most likely instead of raising...but you're right to think that it was very unlikely you were going to get scooped and that you were going to more than likely at least get half the pot if not all of it...

I think with the nut low draw and any sort of high, it'd be a bet. But the second nut low draw with middle pair and no backdoor straight/flush draws in a 6-way pot... that's gotta be too weak IMO.

That's actually pretty funny, I'm sure there's some Freudian psycho-analysis in there somewhere.

I think it's close. UTG has a fairly good range, probably something like any A2, any 4 broadways, suited A3xx, 234x, basically stuff you would expect a reasonably solid player to have. EP has a wider range than that (probably overly loose), but not too insane. The LAG has an extremely wide and poor range, especially since he didn't raise preflop.

Unfortunately, this is 20/40 O8 and not 20/40 LHE, so people are not just going to auto "check to the raiser" on the flop.

On the turn, if I get 3-bet, I'm getting scooped if I don't make my low. An Ace might save me vs. 76/Q6 that for some reason checked the flop, but that's about it. On the river, I think I'm rarely getting scooped because there shouldn't be too many highs that beat me, 64/58/53?

count me in as not liking a preflop raise. I think its because the straight draws aren't great. A36 has one scoopy straight but is otherwise non-nut and AJ can't flop wraps and, though scoopy, won't get a lot of action.

I like the rest of the hand as played Cap'n.

You don't think people are more likely to check to you when you raise PF than when you limp? That goes totally against my experience, in ANY game

nut low draw in position after everyone checked to you is a no brainer, really... you flopped bottom pair, BTW...


somewhere? it's right in front of you!

it's the: "which side of the coinflip am I at?" The truth is, it doesn't really matter. what's important is position, initiative and a very playable hand that makes nut hands relatively often.

In general, I like to come in for a raise if I decide to play and the pot wasn't raised in front of me, unless i'm in position and want to overlimp speculative hands that I wouldn't like to play for two bets. (A3)6J isn't speculative to me. it's strong!

good point. but some do like to check up front in multiway pots, even in unraised ones.

almost always, yes.

here's a reason for checking - these two pair combos (when bare) are junky in this spot (considering board texture and # of opponents).

it's also extremely hard for a single opponent to scoop you. he'd need a perfect 4 card hand. I realize 4 of you saw the river, but it's something to consider...

Thanks, btw, to whoever edited the title to include the game (LO8). I'll try to remember to do that in the future, though I'm sure I'll fail at some point.

You're welcome!

So we would expect a TAG to limp these sorts of hands upfront and not raise them? Why?

Besides the fact that I think raising (A3)T9, 23(4K) or KQJT UTG is fairly poor, you're asking the wrong question.

I don't say to myself, "that woman is a TAG", I think her range is X, Y, Z".

I say to myself, "I've seen her limp hands like X, Y, and Z UTG. I'm going to post a hand on 2+2, so what's the best 3 letter acronym I can use to quickly describe her?".

based on players in the pot, limp behind pre

check flop is good, fold if it gets bet due to presence of nits

yes raise turn

bet river and 100% value own self, lose to straight and A2 lol. but yeah, seriously, bet river