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Old 06-29-2012, 08:58 PM   #1
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Diamond flopped the nut low with no draws to the high

So I flopped the nut low with no draws to the high. Am I supposed to just call down here? Or fold because getting quartered loses me money?

Cake - $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha (9 players)
Cake Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $12.23
BB: $10.01
UTG: $3
UTG+1: $1.23
MP: $13.29
MP+1: $10.02
MP+2: $1.06
CO: $2.68
BTN Hero: $12.15

Pre-flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN and dealt 2c ,9 h, Ah ,K h
UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, MP+2 raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.35) 6s 3s 8d (4 players)
UTG checks, MP+2 bets $0.76 (All-in), CO calls $0.76, Hero calls $0.76, UTG calls $0.76

Turn: ($4.39) 6s 3s 8d Jd (4 players)
UTG checks, CO bets $1.62 (All-in), Hero calls $1.62, UTG calls $1.62

River: ($9.25) 6s 3s 8d Jd 5d (4 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $9.25, UTG folds, returned $0

Last edited by ThaHero; 06-29-2012 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:20 PM   #2
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Nice hand, IMO.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:38 PM   #3
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Thanks. I obv have no idea what I'm doing in PLO8 which is why I'm posting in the newb thread lol. So I take it this is pretty standard.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:50 PM   #4
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

I'm relatively new myself, but I'd call it advanced standard if that even makes sense. I think some of the decisions are close (especially folding vs. calling the flop, but I think how you played it is the best option.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:16 PM   #5
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Yeah that makes sense. I definitely thought about folding the flop but wasn't sure so I just decided to call.

FWIW I won the low and two other players split the high, one with a flush and the other with a pair of 5s. Somehow I screwed up posting the results.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:25 PM   #6
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

That's okay. Posting results just biases responses. Don't bother ever posting them, IMO.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:33 AM   #7
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

There are two players all-in and no money in the second side pot.
ThaHero, were you hoping UTG called and your AK-high was good against him for the side pot?
It's not a very good board for AK-high to be good on...
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Old 06-30-2012, 01:08 AM   #8
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Nah I just wanted some extra money in for the low I guess? The river bet was probably pretty stupid. Guess I just didn't want to check again and have to call another bet.
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Old 06-30-2012, 01:20 AM   #9
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaHero View Post
Nah I just wanted some extra money in for the low I guess? The river bet was probably pretty stupid. Guess I just didn't want to check again and have to call another bet.
This is hopefully obvious: pot-size is not a very good size for a blocking bet in a pot-limit game. Before you take any action at the table, especially an aggressive action, always consider what you're trying to accomplish.

Long-winded, irrelevant point:
Spoiler:

Last edited by AKQJ10; 06-30-2012 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 06-30-2012, 03:27 AM   #10
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaHero View Post
Nah I just wanted some extra money in for the low I guess?
problem is, there's only one player who can call this last bet.
you can't value bet your bare nut low against one player.

neither can you find much meaningful fold equity when two players are all in already and the board is terrible for AK high.

with AK high, you're looking for a paired board with no flush/straight possiblities.
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:28 AM   #11
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaHero View Post
So I flopped the nut low with no draws to the high. Am I supposed to just call down here? Or fold because getting quartered loses me money?
Neither. (That is, I wouldn't "just call down here nor would I "fold").

Quote:
Cake - $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha (9 players)
Cake Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $12.23
BB: $10.01
UTG: $3
UTG+1: $1.23
MP: $13.29
MP+1: $10.02
MP+2: $1.06
CO: $2.68
BTN Hero: $12.15

Pre-flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN and dealt 2c ,9 h, Ah ,K h
UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, MP+2 raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.20
Fine.

Quote:
Flop: ($1.35) 6s 3s 8d (4 players)
UTG checks, MP+2 bets $0.76 (All-in), CO calls $0.76,
At this point you should be trying to figure out what cards your opponents are holding. Since UTG checks, we think he probably doesn't have a very good fit with this flop. Anyone could always be playing coy or trying to be tricky, but just take people at their word. Figure when someone bets the flop, he probably likes it and when he checks the flop, he probably doesn't like it.

UTG checks the flop so we figure he doesn't like it.

Then MP+2 bets $0.76 (All-in), so we figure he does like it. But why should he like it? That's what we ultimately want to know. What cards does he hold that he likes this flop?

And CO calls the bet, so we figure he likes the flop too, but not enough to raise.

Quote:
Hero calls $0.76,
Fine. We like the flop too, but not enough to raise.

Quote:
UTG calls $0.76
It looks like UTG is drawing for something. Looks like neither CO nor UTG has a good enough hand yet to bet, but they both hope to improve enough to bet.

Quote:
Turn: ($4.39) 6s 3s 8d Jd (4 players) UTG checks, CO bets $1.62 (All-in),
It's hard to see how the J could have helped anyone who might have been on a draw. Thus CO's bet of $1.62 doesn't make logical sense unless he has JJ**. But although JJ** is not impossible, it seems far fetched (unlikely). Putting him on A2** seems illogical. Would someone logically play A2** this way? (I don't think so). Not only does CO's bet not make sense, but Hero has the nut low at this point.

Quote:
Hero calls $1.62,
Do you want UTG to call too? If so, the call is correct. UTG is getting great odds to call. On the other hand, if you don't want UTG to call too, then you should make a pot sized raise here. A pot sized raise would make it more expensive to call and thus more difficult to call.

Quote:
UTG calls $1.62

River: ($9.25) 6s 3s 8d Jd 5d (4 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $9.25,
Good play.

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Old 06-30-2012, 04:45 AM   #12
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Question Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
Good play.
how is that?
it's not a value bet (you very rarely make money when called), and because two players are all in and the 2nd side pot is empty, there's no dead money to be had (no meaningful fold equity).
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Old 06-30-2012, 05:29 AM   #13
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by str8 or better View Post
how is that?
I like UTG gone.

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Old 06-30-2012, 06:24 AM   #14
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
I like UTG gone.

Buzz
Why? Do you like our chance of AK winning high with him gone?
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Old 06-30-2012, 06:31 AM   #15
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKQJ10 View Post
Why? Do you like our chance of AK winning high with him gone?
only way I see how the river bet can be good is if UTG folds nut low, allowing us to have larger portions of the main+side pot.

trouble is, if we could somehow see two of UTG's cards - an A and a 2, we'd probably check, because we'd expect villian to call and usually 3/4 us...

therefore, potting river, hoping UTG folds nut low is inconsistent with my previous sentence and is probably a little too optimistic and makes little sense in general...
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