Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
I can't imagine 2458 being a good hand with 2 players already in. You are probably going to be 4-5 handed and need a miracle A3 flop to make the nut low. I don't want to play a marginal 2-way hand in a 5-way pot. I fold this hand unless I'm opening from the button, limping from the small blind, or defending from the big blind. I need to be double suited to open this hand from the cutoff.
I'm not advocating that you or anyone should play or not play this hand (except that in my humble opinion beginners should avoid it).
The hand specified by OP was 8(54)2. In other words, the four and five are of the same suit. For me suitedness is very important. (You have not specified suitedness).
8(54)2 is, for me, a borderline hand, and, rightly or wrongly, slightly above the border.
8542, the rainbow version, is below the border for me.
To perhaps put it in better perspective, I'll include the rainbow version in my chart:
hand | limper | raise | raise/call | raise/3bet |
---|
2 3 4 7 | call | depends | call/depends | fold/depends |
2 4 5 8 | call | depends | call/depends | fold/depends |
2 4 5 8 | fold | fold | fold | fold |
2 3 4 K | call | depends | call/depends | fold/depends |
2 3 K Q | call | depends | call/depends | fold/depends |
2 3 4 T | call | depends | call/depends | fold/depends |
4 5 6 7 | fold | fold | fold | fold |
5 6 7 9 | fold | fold | fold | fold |
I don't really think 8(54)2 is a strong starting hand. But for me it's generally borderline playable and I
can see favorable flops.
I don't need to see the miracle A3* flop to continue after the flop. If the flop simply has an ace plus at least one more low card, I'd consider it favorable, and if the other low card is an eight, even better.
Hand | Pot equity | Scoops | Wins Hi | Ties Hi | Wins Lo | Ties Lo |
---|
2c4h5h8d | 37.00% | 43,285 | 82,828 | 20,578 | 300,363 | 103,741 |
1%-15% | 18.51% | 5,272 | 157,668 | 16,046 | 38,904 | 36,593 |
16%-30% | 16.26% | 4,154 | 116,907 | 20,467 | 51,346 | 34,923 |
31%-50% | 15.44% | 4,774 | 95,553 | 17,202 | 56,736 | 50,695 |
**** | 12.79% | 2,401 | 103,919 | 14,312 | 29,303 | 27,624 |
The flop doesn't have to be that good for 2c4h5h8d to be ahead.
Hand | Pot equity | Scoops | Wins Hi | Ties Hi | Wins Lo | Ties Lo |
---|
2c4h5h8d | 27.29% | 39,188 | 58,355 | 7,317 | 216,829 | 75,223 |
1%-15% | 26.43% | 65,990 | 203,907 | 20,476 | 26,717 | 24,839 |
16%-30% | 17.84% | 36,218 | 119,927 | 19,729 | 36,185 | 25,902 |
31%-50% | 15.00% | 28,817 | 88,494 | 12,520 | 40,849 | 36,051 |
**** | 13.44% | 30,433 | 93,546 | 12,695 | 21,367 | 19,292 |
As you can see from the simulations, 8(54)2 is the favorite, in a five handed game, after a favorable flop that includes an ace. And the flop doesn't need to be A3*. There are some other flops, including some without an ace, that would be favorable as well.
I'm only responding because you wrote that you "can't imagine 2458 being a good hand with 2 players already in"
I'm not trying to talk you into playing the hand, not at all. And I don't want to get involved in a complex discussion here about nuances between baby-suited hands and rainbow hands.
But there is actually some logic involved in the decision to play the baby-suited hand specified by OP.
Buzz