$30/60 O8 (Eight handed)

I'm in the small blind with a suited A233

The big blind is one of the biggest droolers I've ever seen--He literally plays every hand and he plays them for one bet or for four bets, he doesn't care.

It folds to the CO who open raises( he's good and he's very aggressive even with speculative hands)

The Button reraises(he fits the same description as the CO)

I reraise(I wasn't going to reraise, but, I thought it was more important to get max value from the big blind(and the other two for that matter) than to just flat and try to disguise my hand. Anyway, everyone calls and it's four of us to the flop for a cap bet.

FLOP: 67Q with two hearts(not my suit)

I'm somewhat disappointed w/this flop because there's no immediate high draw for my hand. I elected to check, and to my surprise the big blind bet, the CO called, the Button folded and I called.

TURN: Q

I check again, the big blind bets and now the CO folds, too.

RIVER: Q

Q67QQ

I'M heads up

I check. He bets.

Call or fold with Queens full of Threes?

Bite the bullet and call.

Buzz

If he's really a complete "drooler," then I guess you should probably call. I'd expect to see quads a fair amount and the random pocket pair, but you're probably good enough to make it a call. It's a pretty meh situation though.

Yea you gotta call given pot odds. IMO I don't agree with your 4 bet pre flop. It's a good but not great hand. The 2nd 3 handicaps the hand somewhat(unless you scooped lol). Your gunna be outta position for the remainder of the hand not just against the drooler, but more importantly what you described as good agressive opponents. I would think you'd need a premium hand here to 4 bet oop. I don't consider this hand premo

huge pot. bad player. snapcall. all of the draws missed. maybe the bb saw a giant pot and decided that he'd try to bluff his way through it. don't know how rational this guy is, but judging from the description i'm assuming not very.

disagree with 4 bet pre due to out of position and 2nd 3.

i would call with ace high here.

Yea calling is fine. Preflop can be argued either way and the same goes for the flop. I usually cap pre and bet/call the flop.

Your high draw on this flop is one of the two remaining 3s and your remarkable high hand is your pair of threes. When you bet the flop you slightly increase the chances of winning high.

read bb description (concerning pre 4bet). i call with ace hi too. i think it's important to consider the fact that villain might think he's value betting a lone 6 or 7 because he thinks he filled up.

I chose to cap it pre because I really believed that I was the only A2 out there; actually, and for whatever reason, my read was, that neither the CO nor the Button had anything close to resembling your strong-O8 low-type-hand, and because of that, I wanted to make sure that the money went in ahead of time and especially w/villain.

Anyway, I am shocked to hear that y'all are snap calling this river. The reason I felt that I was beat, was because, villain was the type who'd always be the one doing the calling, so, when I saw him take initiative (and on all three streets) from an upfront position, I really didn't think he was betting a wrap or something as mediocre as middle or bottom pair. I actually read him for the last Queen, but, the pot was big and I just couldn't lay it down. Villain had flopped a set of 6's and got max value including the river---he thought I had AAxx but he said he bet the river cause he was trying to rep quads. Little does he know I snap-called w/3's, and like I would ever fold AA in this spot.

Anyway, it felt like it was the wrong call based on my read on that particular hand, but overall, I think it's the correct call. (I've paid off w/Ace high in these spots lots of times...it's fun when you're right).

that would be a horrible reason to cap it preflop.

like everyone else has mentioned, this is a very bad 4 bet oop.

don't put me in that group. i think it is a good adjustment.

maybe it'd help if you mentioned his level of passivity or aggression. with a "drooler" as the description, i can only assume he is capable of taking some irrational or panicky lines in a bloated pot..

Hate this 4b pre. River I think is close but I lean towards calling.

I think this is a pretty easy river call. In the absence of having a good sense of villain's bluff probabilty, I call here just for the tilt equity from the possibility and folding and being shown a bluff.

4bet preflop is whatever. Might as well charge the random hand in the BB as much as possible if you know he's going to call. The EV will pretty break-even with respect to the other players. But if you're going to bloat the pot that much preflop, you need to make extra-sure you're not folding a winner on a later street.

Tell me why you hate the 4b.

I agree the river is close and mainly because villain was slightly out of character the way he took control of the hand right away. If he was the initial preflop raisor and/or if he was in last position and everyone had checked to him on the flop, I could see how he would be itchin to bet/bluff at this pot, but his usual MO is to check/call for any/all bets throughout the entire hand. And that's what made me think that I was beat. But in a HU pot, I can't just give the guy a pair in his hand(I mean I can, but it's hard) hence my call.

Cap is fine. Against two 20% ranges you're a slight favorite. BB is terrible and will often come along (maybe 60%?) Which is OK, but his fold is OK too. So missing value based on absolutes like "pair of threes no good!" is just silly.

OOP mitigated by inherent IO of hand: As233 is hard to get into tough spots with except flopping the set with heavy action. Even then, a bd nld often redeems it.

Conversely, their io are terrible. You've tired then to the pot so that low flush draws and a3s feel they have to chase.


Exactly.

Villain's a complete drooler but he knows how to read the board. However, it's possible that he flopped a draw/wrap w/the 67 and figured he had to bet the river; besides, I really didn't rep AA at any time during postflop, so, that makes it more likely for villain to bluff at it, and at the same time, it leaves me biting the bullet and calling with any Ace(as steveistheman84 and a few others have pointed out).

yeah, should have included him betting a 6 or 7 as bluff (a lot more likely at those limits).

So pre we're never folding to a 3-bet but somehow 4-betting is terrible? Ok then.

Well that's actually true fairly often in LO8 or you only 4bet because of range considerations, but this isn't one those hands/situations. Regarding preflop passivity/aggression i usually say you can play it both ways ,if playing it one way is only a slight mistake, since i don't usually care enough to convince anyone and out of some bizarre reason people are very adamant about their preflop play.

Here we have two aggressive opponents in late positions. This means that their respective opening and 3betting ranges are wide. Then we have a very loose player behind us. That usually means that our actions have very little impact on his decision to play. The merit of inducing a call when we hold a hand that does well multiway disappears when the opponent doesn't care what we do (when it comes to inducing calls even in general the difference between CC 3bet and 4bet is fairly small regarding BB).

Just calling the 3 bet is equivalent to setting small amounts of money on fire in preflop equity. 4 betting also simplifies the play on future streets and enables you to defend flops with single low card and a backdoor flush (when you can ck/call with relative safety for 1 bet, if only 3 bets go in btf you usually just have to through away 10-15% equity).

Doesn't this confirm for you that your read and call were correct? He was bluffing. A lousy bluff that was never going to work if you actually had the hand he put you on. Unfortunately for you, you couldn't beat his bluff. But he could have just as easily been bluffing with 6,7,x,x, or a missed draw and you'd have taken down the pot.

We all agree a call on the river is good. The question I have what are we ranging the button 3 bet? Is he doing that as a isolation play? Or is that a legitimate hand? Idk I don't know the player. Without reads I'm not sure if A233 is a profitable 4 bet oop. And just because we have a lagtard in the BB I don't think is a valid reason to 4 bet. We still have what are described as good agressive players behind us which not only have position on us but have already shown agression. You can't underestimate the positional disadvantage we will be facing postflop

In a vacuum, it does affirm his decision. But the fact that our opponent is so prone to accidentally value bet intending to bluff means that we need to move up the floor of our bluff-catch calling range a good bit. 33 is still a good bluff-catcher, but I'd be less inclined to call with say AT here to avoid getting accidentally value bet by his AJ-AK, 22-TT (although many of those hands aren't likely given previous action).

We should probably add a good bit to our rebluff raising range here. Not 33, but A9 or AT, the best hands that are too good for us to catch a bluff with.

TBH I don't generally have a river bluff-raise range here because I figure most weak players are going to bet/call most of what they bet with, but a player who turns made hands into bluffs is certainly the type I'd want to hone my bluff-raising skill against!

It confirms that villain is capable of bluffing. But it does not confirm that in this particular hand that I felt my call was correct.

I was very tuned in to my read on villain and even though he's capable of bluffing( I mean, aren't we all?) my call on the end was mainly due to pot size. It's hard for me to tell you exactly how I felt during the hand, but I've played a great deal with villain and I know that he doesn't take initiative like this when there are two very aggro opponents behind him unless he REALLY likes the flop. Could it be a 458x hand? Yeah, it could be. But that's not what I read him for. But, I call anyway because it's only 1 bet, the pot was large, and I had a hand to call with(but I would've called w/AK and AJ, too).

I'm never c/c with AT or A9, I'm leading out, because, I really don't think villain is even at the level to pay off w/AJ or AK so why would I even give him the chance to check those hands behind me? But, I will check AK and AJ because I think I can make an extra bet out of him when he does have the total airball, like ten high, cause naturally he's not going to check any of those hands behind me.

Thing is: Villain is not good enough to spot the value in betting with AK here. Granted, AK wouldn't be the best hand this time, but a lot of the times it's going to be and a really good player will bet this hand soley for value and not because they're trying to bluff but because they think its the best hand. Villain isn't capable of that! He's only capable of a bluff. And, his bet on the end wasn't for value, he thought he was bluffing me out with Aces.