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Old 08-05-2012, 12:25 AM   #1
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Diamond $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

Villain is very aggro, 48/32/21 over ~500 hands. He has open-min raised his button 3 out of 3 times in recent memory and I have had enough of a hand to defend with but have folded the flop each time.

Comments on all streets welcome.

Poker Stars $5/$10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 5 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $300.00
BTN: $1725.30
SB: $741.63
Hero (BB): $1038.00
UTG: $1535.11

Pre Flop: ($10.00) Hero is BB with 3 J 5 6
2 folds, BTN raises to $20, 1 fold, Hero calls $10

Flop: ($45.00) A A 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $25, Hero calls $25

Turn: ($95.00) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $80, Hero calls $80

River: ($255.00) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks (?), BTN bets $220, Hero?
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:49 AM   #2
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

I would play it the same way you did and probably call the river. Some kind of high hand makes more sense here than 45xx or 46xx . But I don't play nearly as high as 5/10.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:10 PM   #3
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

Would he bet the turn with an ace that is not a full house? If so, I am definitely potting the turn and hoping to freeroll him with the few flush outs I may have. If not, then river is a definite check call (I know you are calling a pot size bet to win half the pot but he doesnt have 45 or 46 that often).

I like potting the turn because you have the second nut low, have a backup in case one of your low cards hits, and if you calling with the nut low on the flop then this is a bad card for you and he knows this. I think he has an ace the majority of the time but by check calling the whole way, you are only ever winning half the pot and allowing yourself to get scooped sometimes, even if it is only a small percentage of the time. I like giving myself a chance to scoop which is why I probably pot the turn (I kinda wish stacks were shorter though).
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:41 AM   #4
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

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Originally Posted by nyy214 View Post
Would he bet the turn with an ace that is not a full house? If so, I am definitely potting the turn and hoping to freeroll him with the few flush outs I may have. If not, then river is a definite check call (I know you are calling a pot size bet to win half the pot but he doesnt have 45 or 46 that often).

I like potting the turn because you have the second nut low, have a backup in case one of your low cards hits, and if you calling with the nut low on the flop then this is a bad card for you and he knows this. I think he has an ace the majority of the time but by check calling the whole way, you are only ever winning half the pot and allowing yourself to get scooped sometimes, even if it is only a small percentage of the time. I like giving myself a chance to scoop which is why I probably pot the turn (I kinda wish stacks were shorter though).
this
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:41 AM   #5
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

I don't like betting the turn because I have the bare 2nd low and not really a lot else (but yes, way too much to c/f). Why do I want to try and create a huge pot on the turn? I've put in $45 out of a little over $1k, I really really don't want to create a big pot with 2nd nut low and a J flush draw on a paired board. With my hand I don't dislike him checking back the turn, I will be able to fire about any river.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:35 AM   #6
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

Can someone explain why this is a call on the flop? I'm a LO8 player and I suck at PLO8, but when I do play it I would fold this every time.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:42 AM   #7
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

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Originally Posted by Donk Quixote View Post
Can someone explain why this is a call on the flop? I'm a LO8 player and I suck at PLO8, but when I do play it I would fold this every time.
We have ok lo draw and ok flush draw versus player who will open all his btns and cbet all flops so we are doing pretty good against his range.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:13 PM   #8
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

fold pre oop, unless you smash the flop you're always asking for a mess.
You're gonna get much better spots against this player.
Getting invlolved here is how you lose to donkeys.

flop is a prime example, hard to escape from.
River is obv a crying call as pld.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:43 PM   #9
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

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Originally Posted by Wallhallen View Post
We have ok lo draw and ok flush draw versus player who will open all his btns and cbet all flops so we are doing pretty good against his range.
Just seems like a horrible RIO spot though. We have nothing so far, we're OOP, and there's only a few turn cards in the deck that we can feel good about putting a lot of money in with, and those cards are going to make our opponent completely shut down if he's getting scooped.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:49 PM   #10
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

on the flop, villian bet just over half pot. we need to continue with most of our range, otherwise villian freerolls on the flop bet.
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:34 PM   #11
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

I also think flop check-call is a bit donky. I'd c/r to ~80 and obv fold to push.

I don't love check-calling the turn either. Maybe c/r-commit is better?

River whatever, but I like folding a bit better.
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:48 PM   #12
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

Surely if you are going to play this hand you need to reraise preflop?
I think i would either fold or check raise the flop because as you have played it he can put you on near enough exactly what you have got.
I don't like the check call on the turn, thinking from his point of view your hand just seems really weak and the 2 most likely wasn't a great card for you.
As played i would fold the river
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:17 PM   #13
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

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Originally Posted by amok View Post
I'd c/r to ~80 and obv fold to push.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1facebook View Post
Surely if you are going to play this hand you need to reraise preflop?
I think i would either fold or check raise the flop
what if he calls the flop raise???? how do you play the turn?

does the response differ depending on the specific turn card?
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:29 PM   #14
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

pre-flop: this hand is good enough to defend from an equity standpoint but has enough playability issues that it can easily be thrown away, against a random 50% hand we should expect 48% equity

flop: our hand becomes a slight favorite against a random 50% hand but only barely
odds villain matches hand range A: 39.6%
A,23: 49.1%
matches range A, 23, dd: 61.5%
A,23, dd, 7: 71%

villain will have an A 40% of the time, taking this into account is it worth check-raising?

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: aa7
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
jd6d5c3c44.35% 104,875127,344654368,58613,450
A: 50%55.65% 170,229472,00265456,90413,450

even when villain does have an ace, we are still likely to have good equity in the pot


based on the simulations i think flop should be a bet/call or a check/raise: if we check raise and are 3bet we can throw our hand away, i also expect villain cbets his entire range here which makes me slightly prefer c/r


we called - so we have much no information on villain holdings, he may still have any 4 cards - his bet size on the turn $80 is pretty serious though, so let's assess the chances of him having a hand that has us in really bad shape

assuming villain started with a top 50% hand: there is a 51% chance villain matches hand range A, 34, 77

we still have a strong holding against the range, and it looks like we can call a pot-sized bet here even against the top of his range


ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
1,152,600 trials (Exhaustive)
board: aa72
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
jd6d5c3c48.62% 116,102211,8686,407890,47030,720
a: 50%, 34: 50%, 77: 50%51.38% 138,446934,3256,407231,41030,720

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
2,257,560 trials (Exhaustive)
board: aa72
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
jd6d5c3c56.38% 453,479603,20221,0811,858,829146,441
50%43.62% 150,1151,633,27721,081252,290146,441

one problem: we are not far ahead of his entire opening range

if we check raise and assume he will fold everything but AA, A7, A2, 34 how likely is he going to have one of these nut hands: 27.5%
he may also call with some other A hands in that spot, so we can assume he probably calls closer to 30% of the time
however we can expect to fold out roughly 1/4 of hands that have an A with this line

if we check-raise we pretty much have to fold to a jam



river: 3 comes and villain fires off a near-PSB, we know we are almost never good for the high
what are the odds villain has as good or a better low given 50% starting range:
45,46,56: 25.9%

How often do(es)
PLAYER_2 match hand range AA, A7, A3, 45:
27%

if we think we can make villain fold weaker made hands by jamming a check-raise may be superior to a call




cliffs
bet/call or check/raising the flop is better for realizing our equity and for our entire range
turn: still a very good spot to check-raise, no longer a great spot to lead
river: maybe cr if we think we can get villain to fold weaker made hands (if we think villain value bets weaker made hands on river) but as played hero should make a crying call

Last edited by monikrazy; 08-06-2012 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:27 AM   #15
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Re: $5/$10 river spot vs aggro villain

I like the way you played it... And i fold river
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