40-80 mix game, 6 handed

I raise utg A438

button, unknown older asian 3,
flop AKJ

check, bet, raise, 3, fold

check raise with intention of barreling, backdoor low if miss, with 3 on flop I just don't think I have enough to continue.

I hate just check folding flop, and I hated check calling so check raised.

Getting 8.5:1, I don't see why you hate check/calling the flop. Especially if you're planning to fold away your equity when your opponent 3-bets your raise.

Yes. Hate it. After you x-raise, you have to call the 3bet. Using this particular hand to x-raise-fold is terrible. And you should not hate just x-calling the flop.

+1

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: akj

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
ac4c3s8s	33.15%	143,675	156,912	4,213	121,402	5,112
hh, qt, ak, aj, kj, kk, jj, aa	66.85%	345,666	438,875	4,213	29,879	5,112

I don't get calling at all. Seems you have to make back door low to get any part of the pot, pretty hard to be ahead for high, and the BD low isn't even to the nuts for half at the moment. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

Raising is way too aggressive IMO and it's very hard for OP to actually have QT in this spot, you rep more ace+flush draw type hands

The preflop action isn't clear btw

I think "I raise utg A438 button, unknown older asian 3"
means

• Betting round #1
  • Hero raises,
  • MP folds,
  • CO folds
  • Button three bets,
  • SB folds,
  • BB folds,
  • Hero calls.

And the result after the first betting round is Hero is heads-up against Button with 7.5 (less rake) small bets in the pot.

After the flop (second betting round), I think "check, bet, raise, 3, fold" means

• Betting round #2
  • Hero checks this flop,
  • Button bets this flop,
  • Hero check/raises,
  • Button 3-bets,
  • Hero folds.

(That's how I read it).
Buzz

I don't like attacking this flop. Too likely Ah in his hand. If Ah Kd Jh flop I like it better. I check/fold flop. Can't really use 8.5-1 HU in split games when you're going for 1/2. It's just 1/2 the flop -1.875bb- vs 0.5bb, 1.5bb or 2.5bb depending on how far you go.

*I'm never taking that line against an unknown opponent because you don't know what they're capable of and your hand just isn't strong enough to c/r and be oop the rest of the way. It's very exploitable when you c/r, get raised, and then wind up folding or worse yet, c/r and then c/c the rest of the way only to end up looking really weak or like a calling station, and I'll add that in mix games, especially draw games where snowing is very common, the last thing you want to have on your forehead is a target that says "exploitable."

*Be careful of c/f this type of flop too often when you've raised utg especially in six handed play w/strong opponents.

*Yeah, A8 isn't likely to be good here against a typical 3 bettor's range, but you can opt to just c/c as your go-to line just to peel a card because A)you might have some runners that could scoop/chop...B)you're not aware of his play so this might be a good spot to invest a few bets just to gather some info on the guy. And, no, I'm not a fan of tossing chips in the pot just to see if I can get them back, but sometimes you have to play a pot for that exact reason. Not knowing anything about this player is a very good reason for not folding but for keeping the pot as small as possible.

Thanks for thoughts. Buzz, read hand posting perfectly. Thanks.

I am being convinced that check call is best. Even though I don't like it still.

I don't understand math that was put forward by Steve, Why give him high only hands. and why would kj be in there.

I can have best hand vs hands like a237 with hearts. reason I hate check calling is how bad a shape we are in vs hands a23,24,34 with a hearts and pretty much any fourth card. I think check fold is still not atrocious.

Or check raise with bluff intentions is not insane but I agree with our hand something like ahkdjh is a better board for it

i misread the action and ran the wrong equity sims. i think i actually like c/f'ing this flop too.

Why? What changed exactly? Other than him not having bare kj or qt that doesn't also have an Ace.

we opened utg and got 3bet

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

2,751,920 trials (Exhaustive)

board: ajk

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
ac4c3s8s	15.04%	132,041	156,599	25,090	586,344	27,216
a$w$w$B, a$B$B$w	84.96%	2,053,372	2,570,231	25,090	112,896	27,216

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

4,069,660 trials (Exhaustive)

board: ajk

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
ac4c3s8s	15.17%	203,426	256,164	39,598	850,068	36,288
a2$B, a3$B	84.83%	3,038,696	3,773,898	39,598	195,048	36,288

we are going to be forced to continue on any lo card, and we will chop at best and likely get quartered. your already likely dead for high and even your backdoors are dominated.

oh yeah, and get scooped like 100% when the lo bricks

sorry i don't know why i said your bd's are dominated.

I'm leading the flop here after raising pre and playing poker from there. Bet>c/c>c/f>>>>>c/r imo.

Yeah what do you think he's 3betting that folds this flop. Chk/fold>chk/call>chk/raise

That's just it---we don't know what he's 3 betting with because we have zero reads on this guy, which imho, makes a c/f an absolutely horrific play.

I'm still chosing the one in the middle, c/c.

come on, horrific is a bit strong.

if the guy had any sort of real hand preflop the equity is really bad and the pot odds give us about a break even call at best. there's a bunch of cards where we have to lay it down even tho it improves us as well because of the heart draw on board. factor in that low-low doesnt necessarily give us a piece or could lead to only a quarter and its tipping the scales away from the call.

i really think it's fairly close but the most solid thing to do is just fold and calling is in quite speculative/don't know wtf is going on type territory.

Lol. Now that seems just horrible. This has to be one of the worst flops to lead on with our actual hand (into the 3bettor). And I don't think that I would actually lead this flop with any hand anyway.

What exactly are the notations in this calc? I assume that w = wheel? But what is the $, and is B = brick? (Like any other card that's not a wheel card or an A?)

And I don't think that we're dead for the high. We can get some runner wheels, runner FHs, and there's at least a non-zero chance that just catching a 2nd pair here could be good.

Check/folding is horrific because:

1) We actually are in that "wtf is going on territory" due to the lack of reads, which, is why I chose the line that best fits that.

2) It makes you become extremely exploitable, which is even worse when it carries over(and it will carry over) to the other games that are part of his mix.

3) The pot is big enough to peel a card; we def have some cards that can back into a scoop including two pair(esp. if villain hasn't flopped two pair or better).

4) I can't worry about the hearts on the flop in a heads up pot. If he has it, he has it.

$w=wheel
$B=broadway

Ah, ok. Although why does your 2nd sim only have 3 cards then? "A2$B", what's the 4th card?
And I am kind of surprised that our equity is as low as 15%.
I think there are some hands that an unknown could 3bet that you haven't included though. Things like: 2345, KKA5, KKww, and AAxx that will have no low draw from that flop (AA108 AAK5 etc).

Also this made me think of a more general question: What is the chance that a low comes in on a flop that has just one low card? Eg if we have 2345 on an AKJ flop, what are the exact odds that we will back into a low? There is obviously some % change for if our potential low cards can pair, but in the case that we have 3 or 4 low cards, so that it's un-counterfeitable.

4th card is x. 2345 is the only one i didn't include because usually nobody 3bets that and it's a very limited set of hands. and i think the odds of a bd lo coming in are 25%.

I think steve is correct. For 2345 on KJA:

- best case scenario for bd low only = 24/45 (any of 7 low cards minus 4 you have) * 21/44 (any of 6 low cards minus 3 you have i.e. the turn was a 2/3/4/5) = 25.45%

- best case scenario where 2 wheels come = 12/45 (any of the 4 low cards you have) * 9/44 (any of the remaining 3 low cards you have) = 5.45%**


**insert joke about [99.9% of the time on Bovada] here**