2 good players limp UTG and UTG+1, loose aggressive fish limps HJ, I limp CO with Qc7s4s2c. BTN folds, SB completes, BB raps.

Flop (5 SB) : 5s 6s Jc
BB bets, UTG folds, UTG+1raises, HJ folds, We?

Pot is offering 4:1. You have a lot of unclean outs that are only going one way. What you really want is an offsuit 3, and even that is only guaranteeing you half the pot. For one bet I wouldn't mind a peel, but two is too expensive, IMO.

nothing wrong with a str8 flush...

op, fold pre, it's not even close. as played, fold flop.

open ended straight flush draw.

I haven't looked ahead.

You'll hate yourself if you fold a hand that would have made a straight flush. But you have a poor low draw (fourth nut) so that you probably will have to split the pot even if you do make your straight flush.

Full pot odds are four to one (4:1), but half pot odds are only 1.5:1. Implied half pot odds are maybe 2.5:1. Odds against making straight flush on turn are 23:2 against, and odds against making straight flush or turn or river are
903:87 or roughly 10:1 against.

There are also some other chances, but they may end up being expensive as second best hands.

You really need implied pot odds closer to 10:1 to play this hand. But you're no where near it. It's tough folding a straight flush draw, but I think that's the right play.

Fold.

Buzz

AH! My bad. I missed that. Add two awesome outs, still locking up only half the pot...

Agreed. I wonder how wide HJ must be calling pre if OP thinks he's a lag fish ...

This.

I am going to be controversial and say that this is more evidence that time needs to be spent in the forum hammering out a preflop strategy. IIRC Elsewhere we have it suggested that its only good to open favourable A2xx and A3xx hands, yet here we have (Q2)47 opened. Furthermore, the first reaction is not even to question preflop.

OK I may have put an unfair spin on things but I do think it indicates a problem.

Incidentally, when, if ever, is it good to raise BB v an open raise? For example, button open raises, we have (i) (AT)AJ or (ii) (A2)34. Is it good to flat call, or raise back?

But why?

That's an interesting question that probably deserves its own thread. I personally like 3-betting with a wide range HU against a button steal in most situations because I'd rather have the initiative and the hand just plays easier from there.

I would guess that the optimal strategy against a good player that you have history with would be like LHE where you call with your entire range and c/r a lot of flops.

Hmmmm Its a matter of huge debate whether that is the optimal strategy against a button open in limit holdem. There are very good players that choose instead to 3 bet a balanced range, although that may be harder to do.

I take your point about it being easier to play. The auto-check raise strategy isn't necessarily going to apply as we can't be sure they will cbet (incidentally this has become the case in limit, a reason why its not clear cut that calling everything pre is best there. In fact, against a player who doesn't cbet 100% - many mid stakes players these days, especially post Phil Newall's book - it might be necessary to adapt there)

It seems to me something that makes it different is the relative closeness of hands in a head's up situation in o8. I played around a little bit with Pro Poker Tools and I was surprised how close many hands were in a head's up situation.

With an agressive table I would have folded this hand preflop.. bad low and what exactly are you hoping on the flop A 3 5 one combo? thats hard to get. as played I dont generally float for one side of pot with a bad redraw on the other side. Too often you hit and its no good on either side.

Now in a passive game I might play this If I felt I could barrel off no lows coming and players just fold the river big bet.. thats not too often and with your description that is just not going to happen with two agressive players..

I play tighter with more agressive players at the table. I want my decisions to be easier not harder.. Aggressive players are great at building a pot.. just make sure its a pot that you can scoop.

Wendy

I would reraise in ep to try to gin my high and reraise in lp to build a pot with better equity than my opponents..

Wendy

If it makes you feel better, my first thought was to question preflop. I don't see how all the postflop advice in the world will help OP win if he's this loose.

Agreed that a detailed preflop primer would be worthwhile.