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/ FLO8 (two hands) / FLO8 (two hands)

11-07-2014 , 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spimp13
No, just no man. I know this is limit as opposed to NLO8 and PLO8 but this is just not a good line of thinking for hi/low. Omaha hi only sure this hand is more playable, but hi/low it is very, very, very bad. You have absolute garbage low draw, garbage flush draw and absolute garbage straight draw. If you hit your straight 56789 you are only getting half HU at best as someone is going to have low. In hi low we are playing to scoop or get 3/4 of all pots if possible. How much scoop ability does this hand have? Very little needing a perfect board to come.

If you are multiway you have a chance at getting more of the pot but you are oop and the action has been call, call, raise prior to it getting to you with potential to be OOP vs 3 people. I can continue to go on why this is bad, but these are just some of the reasons.

To clarify my 2 posts are only in regard to hand 1 with 9987 single suit.
I think you are mostly agreeing with me. Yes, the straight and flush possibilities of the hand are not very good. And yes, most of the value of the hand comes from scooping.

And how do you scoop with this hand? By far, the easiest way is by hitting a set of 9's. The reason that 99 is much better than 88 or 77 is that a set of 9's (or 9's full) scoops much, much, more often than a set of 8's or 7's, because flopping an 8 or 7 also facilitates a low.

I'm not saying at all that this is a good hand. But you do not need a good hand to defend the BB in LO8.
/ FLO8 (two hands) Quote
11-07-2014 , 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK
I think you are mostly agreeing with me. Yes, the straight and flush possibilities of the hand are not very good. And yes, most of the value of the hand comes from scooping.

And how do you scoop with this hand? By far, the easiest way is by hitting a set of 9's. The reason that 99 is much better than 88 or 77 is that a set of 9's (or 9's full) scoops much, much, more often than a set of 8's or 7's, because flopping an 8 or 7 also facilitates a low.

I'm not saying at all that this is a good hand. But you do not need a good hand to defend the BB in LO8.
Agreed.

I'm defending this hand from the BB; I know it's not a good hand and I know when to fold it after the flop and when to continue. Imo, OP took it too far, which might be the reason why spimp13 was in such disagreement with you(and should've been with me, as well), but, that doesn't change the value of the overall hand. Not every hand is a cinch hand, some hands need more understanding of the how's/why's in certain spots, but, when you don't have that, then yes, the hand has lost all its value. In this particular hand? Yes, the hand lost all its value.
/ FLO8 (two hands) Quote
11-10-2014 , 12:22 PM
Hand 1
fold every street

Hand 2
i think it's close in big pot
/ FLO8 (two hands) Quote
12-04-2014 , 03:25 AM
Hand1
Sims are really misleading especially for this type of hand with (almost) no low value.A lot of the win hi% for this hand will come from winning w 2pair or even 1 pair when two lows are out there.But can u call?Imagine two nut lows going to war: can u call down even on non flush non str8t(vry rare situation) board?
what about on a flush/str8t board?Your hand might be good but can u call down with lows betting/raising?
Hand2
Clear fold on the flop.
/ FLO8 (two hands) Quote
12-04-2014 , 08:58 AM
1. I am folding preflop only when UTG is a known limp-reraiser. It has enough potential to defend, some value added by card removal effects (middle cards are often very live in a multiway action). Flop is an esy fold for we are not closing the action (last to act is probably a call), river call seems like a misclick.

2. Since I can safely continue on 13 turn cards, I honestly don't see how it can be folded on the flop last to act with 12 to 1.
/ FLO8 (two hands) Quote
12-05-2014 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK
But in a limit game, position and reverse implied odds are almost never worth giving away more than 10% in equity.
I just want to praise this sentence. I used to beg for exactly this sort of analysis.

I used post preflop equities and my estimates of why I estimated that RIO shouldn't be bad enough to offset them. No no no, people would tell me, you just don't understand. O8 is a postflop game, and it doesn't matter an iota what your preflop equity is. You just can't compare the two.

Well, IO clearly matters, because thin preflop edges don't justify taking the worst of it on two big rounds and a small one. If I can't play my hands well postflop, I'm going to often give up two or three small bets chasing maybe a small bet or less in preflop equity.

But conversely, there's a point where the pot's so large and our equity is so good that preflop equity matters. [snip reductio ad absurdum unless someone disputes this] but the point is, there must be some point at which your preflop equity matters. I wanted to know where that point is, and no one but me seemed to think it a worthy topic of conversation.

So thanks, Nick.

=====

That said--I'm struggling to fit together that we got maybe a 75th percentile flop for this hand and still can't play on. I guess it really is true that we're almost set-mining, or mining for a flop with exactly six-five, but both top set of nines and the good wrap still usually chop the pot.

I guess in that light, we're OK folding a lot of equity on the flop because of RIO (hold'em comparison: 99 will sometimes be ahead on K76 two-suited multiway but unable to play on), so who cares that we fold more than 80% of flops?

Still seems like a marginal call pre, not a clear one. Except for the flopped boats etc., seems like the best flops for this hand aren't that great, and the vast majority of flops are at best mediocre like this one.

Last edited by AKQJ10; 12-05-2014 at 04:52 PM.
/ FLO8 (two hands) Quote
12-05-2014 , 04:54 PM
The reductio ad absurdum if anyone cares and is unclear on this:

If there are somehow 100 big bets in the pot, I have 50% of the equity six ways, and my hand is an RIO nightmare, I don't care. Even if I call down for 12.5 big bets (in a five-bet cap game) every time I'm behind and don't make another penny when I'm ahead, I have a gold mine.

There are never 100 big bets in the pot but my RIO are never that bad. So, where do they balance out?
/ FLO8 (two hands) Quote
12-05-2014 , 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK
A lot of people don't realize that 9987 is a significantly better hand than 9887 or 9877 in O8.
Off-topic, this is reversed from O-high including PLO. 9877 has fantastic focus because it can flop 76x or maybe 75x and jam.
/ FLO8 (two hands) Quote

      
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