ye i dont luv calling but surely we are never folding. Oh i hope ur bluffin or u giving away too much info lol

If it's a slightly -icm shove we more than make up for it with a bubble rapeage stack that the stolen BB gives us.

The biggest advantage in NL over PL is that you can make these high pressure plays on your opponents. In PL, this is an easy fold since your initial 3x raise does not put that much of a dent on your opponent's stack (and they can also fightback with a top 10% hand which they're unable to do so in NL).

Raising 2.5-3x (to fold to a shove) here is the worst of the 3 possible plays...

i disgree. u have over 20 bigs. folding > raise folding > shoving ur whole stack v a lose player that will call with a lot

given the exact situation, raise/folding shouldn't even be an option in NLO8.

Still calling in that spot w/AQT2 Billy?

obv not lol..i guess i worded it wrong

why? its a blind and ante steal surely. i think we arnt goin to agree but obv i see ur point.

oh nd btw...i did say that i think folding is best

Can't speak for Billy, but I've called with premium hands in that spot. I don't give a hoot about ICM, keep donk shoving, and I'll keep calling and raking in your chips. As wadzon says, easy game.

ICM is part of poker, but you're taking it to an extreme

So basically, if it's at the bubble and hero is CL (or has all players yet to act covered), then he should shove every hand? That is what you're saying? Or just because you hadn't been shoving recently?

I'm not arguing with your results, just seems ridiculous to me.

standart. well played walti. of course regs will start to call u lighter ( like me for example ) but this won't make up for the many times u will get the pot without a showdown. If called, there is always a chance to suckout in poker too. Obv if u feel like a guy hates u and calls veeery wide, then fold but as u said: this wasn't the case so quite an easy shove imho.

shove > fold > raise/fold ( u should never be raise/folding in these spots ).

So using this as a starting point:

22% hero goes from basically co-CL to barely third, battling to be ITM.
9% hero takes a commanding CL.
69% small increase in chips.

Is this significantly +EV for hero? I'm not so sure.

From villain's point of view:

22% goes from 3rd to CL.
9% bubbles.
69% small increase

Is this signficantly -EV for villain? I'm not so sure.

Look at it this way: if villain becomes CL, shouldn't everyone fold to his perpeutal shoves under the same principle? if so, becoming CL more than twice as often than bubbling could be significantly +EV. if not, then hero should not be considered automatically incorrect for calling w/ top 10% hand.

I just think the ICM logic is a bit simplistic at times, and no matter how complex the ICM model/formula is, I doubt it captures all the variables at play, especially considering hero and villain are regs.

Sorry to be a techno caveman, but what software does this? ~ me likey !

No additional software, it's a built in feature of Pokerstars.

When you're logged in, right click another player's avatar and click note and you will be able to apply colors. To modify your notes + corresponding colors, go to Options --> Player Notes.

Have fun!

rightclick players avatar-->label-->color

Hi...

18 man players PLO8/NLO8 are my favorite game on Stars.... a lot of time I play some reg.... but now i don't have much time for Poker... =/ Have a lot of work (Architecture) and only can play a little moments on the day, specially in the night.... but not more than a couple of SNG... and really, didn't like play tired on the nights....

I love Poker... but now i can play only the weekends.... I don't are a Pro (only play when i have time 10-15 SNG on a day)....

I want making post in this thread when I play again and have good spots to discuss, feedback is excellent...

Sorry for my english.

Cheers!

Welcome to the forum!

Solid month in 18 mans for Lev_Gold

Lev_Gold PokerStars OMAHA 02/01/2012-02/23/2012 728 $5.72 $14.62 37.4% $4,162

Russians run good

just another dumb ***** russian that stars loves

Can we talk about this?

My gut says its wrong (no offence nice guy) but if you can show me the maths I might change my mind

Someone do something different???

I Thinks i have to fold always =/

Poker Stars $13.89+$1.11 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 1652387
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (MP2): t1420 71 BBs
CO: t1420 71 BBs
BTN: t1470 73.50 BBs
SB: t1480 74 BBs
BB: t1500 75 BBs
UTG: t1500 75 BBs
UTG+1: t1700 85 BBs
UTG+2: t1530 76.50 BBs
MP1: t1480 74 BBs

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is MP2 with A A 2 3
UTG calls t20, 2 folds, MP1 calls t20, Hero raises to t100, 4 folds, UTG calls t80, MP1 calls t80

Flop: (t330) J 7 5 (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets t220, UTG calls t220, MP1 folds

Turn: (t770) 9 (2 players)
UTG bets t1180 all in, Hero folds

Pretty sure I'm never folding there but this sim says i ought to (if he has the st8 that is):

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

475,040 trials (Exhaustive)

board: j759

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
as2s3sad	36.85%	83,160	83,424	0	213,064	1,920
8T**	63.15%	207,360	391,616	0	0	1,920

However I reckon theres a bunch of other crap in his range too so it might not be all bad to call

So I am going to go ahead and has a massive baby boo hoo hoo about how I have been running today (as my mrs defo wont want to hear about it).

According to HEM for all in flips today I have a positive EV of $66,000 tournament chips
yet my actual results are -$10,000 so my results differ from expectation by around 50 stacks! Unreal. At least its not real money though eh? lolz

cliffs: Bob lost almost every flip today

Pretty sure your gut is right. I'm pretty bad with any sort of intelligent stats conversation but pretty sure making that assumption is just a big no-no.