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Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread

11-16-2011 , 04:09 PM
Sometimes Jk plays bigger stakes. I wish i had his work ethic ^^. I don't get me motivated this month and played bad too many times. Want to reach at least gold at PS, so 2k VPP to go. Just cashed out 1.5k, i hope it helps.

Jk and mastah are both good regs for me at this stakes. But don't know why you think mastah is the best at 3.5?

edit: I just wanted to add that Juicy_J_93 is another good reg at those stakes and don't know, what he's doing worse than mastah Then i searched for UnnaturalDisaster's nick on stars saw lol

Last edited by Prophili; 11-16-2011 at 04:22 PM.
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11-16-2011 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophili
Jk and mastah are both good regs for me at this stakes. But don't know why you think mastah is the best at 3.5?
When I was putting in heavy volume in the summer, I reviewed a bunch of hands and thought mastah played near-perfect poker. Very few mistakes and seemed like he was making these great calls in marginal spots.

No disrespect to the rest of you guys, but did you have someone else in mind as being a better reg?
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11-16-2011 , 04:27 PM
I have never seen JK play a 7$ 18 man but he does play 15$ 18 mans once and awhile. I agree with Mastah being one of the better regs at the 3.5s but I have a few players rated ahead of him. Disregarding volume I would rank Manndl as the best at 3.5s and Hammr as the best at 18 mans overall.
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11-16-2011 , 04:41 PM
Maybe my opinion is a bit outdated as I haven't played too many of these for a few months. In July, the games were softer and a lot less reg-infested. I haven't seen manndl play too much because of our timezones differences, but from my small sample seems to play a similar style as yours and duncan's, LAG.

I think hammr has a very solid LAG game. The crazy thing is when he's playing SNGs, he's also got every low-mid PL/NLO8 MTT up, probably around 12-15 tables in all.
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11-16-2011 , 04:48 PM
Also, another thing. I noticed that at the $3.50s, players don't give a **** about ICM. Whether they don't have a good grasp of the concept or just don't care about the tiny pay jumps.

I'd have some really frustrating FTs with mastah who would stall or get chipped down to <1 BB at the bubble or already ITM. It handcuffed what other shortstacks could do and some would just lose their patience by shoving too wide or calling too lose in ICM critical spots.

Also, is this not a ******ed call by JK? I find him calling off with these low only hands a lot.

PokerStars Game #70651416457: Tournament #470060876, $3.16+$0.34 USD Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2011/11/16 15:14:15 ET
Table '470060876 2' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 3: juancoyote1 (5337 in chips)
Seat 7: Juicy_J_93 (3704 in chips)
Seat 8: broken_jia (8726 in chips)
Seat 9: jkfocus (9233 in chips)
juancoyote1: posts the ante 50
Juicy_J_93: posts the ante 50
broken_jia: posts the ante 50
jkfocus: posts the ante 50
broken_jia: posts small blind 400
jkfocus: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to broken_jia [4d Th 8d 6h]
juancoyote1: folds
Juicy_J_93: folds
broken_jia: raises 7876 to 8676 and is all-in
jkfocus: calls 7876
*** FLOP *** [8s 3s 8h]
*** TURN *** [8s 3s 8h] [7h]
*** RIVER *** [8s 3s 8h 7h] [3c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
broken_jia: shows [4d Th 8d 6h] (HI: three of a kind, Eights; LO: 8,7,6,4,3)
jkfocus: shows [5s 4s Ac 8c] (HI: three of a kind, Eights - Ace kicker; LO: 8,7,4,3,A)
jkfocus collected 8776 from pot
jkfocus collected 8776 from pot
broken_jia finished the tournament in 4th place and received $5.68.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 17552 | Rake 0
Board [8s 3s 8h 7h 3c]
Seat 3: juancoyote1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Juicy_J_93 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: broken_jia (small blind) showed [4d Th 8d 6h] and lost with HI: three of a kind, Eights; LO: 8,7,6,4,3
Seat 9: jkfocus (big blind) showed [5s 4s Ac 8c] and won (17552) with HI: three of a kind, Eights; LO: 8,7,4,3,A
Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Quote
11-16-2011 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken_jia
Also, another thing. I noticed that at the $3.50s, players don't give a **** about ICM.
I agree 100% with this
Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Quote
11-16-2011 , 06:00 PM
wanted to spend less time on here and other sites but just have to say that imo it's non sence to say who is the best.

You can for sure say who the top 10-20 are but then it's a matter of how u look at things. Pretty obv. that a guy playing 8 tables seems better then the one 20+ tabling if they both had the same skill level.
does he make more money/hour? I doubt it.

P.S. mastah tilts the crap out of me folding bellow 1 BB and then just going on to suckout 20 times in a row to win the sng
Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Quote
11-16-2011 , 06:55 PM
i just started recently to play the 18 man more after the 9 man ko run worse and worse.
be honest guys how do u rate my play?
i know i have to open up my range more for those(im a nit) but what do u think?
am i easy to read?


ps:im up huge against mastah acording to my tracker
psps:wadzon is running hotter than the sun against me too
pspsps:jiucy>jk by a big margian.

Last edited by manndl; 11-16-2011 at 07:01 PM.
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11-17-2011 , 09:49 AM
Agree with broken_jia: since the summer the 3.50s are harder and more reg-infested when there is a decent traffic.

Agree with züri: i cant say either who is the best at the 3.50s.

There are a few regs whos play I respect at the tables: waltiph, Juicy, züri, mastah, Karl Marx, manndl, DuncanMalloy, Delbertt, DrKoolDan, tj2612, drobysh, joe82 + broken_jia (little sample of him but not a lost guy ). I played a decent volume against these guys and both are fine imo. Its nice to know some of them reading this forum and posting here.

JK vs. mastah. Masta is far better. JK is a machine and playing much (sometimes it seems he is playing all day long) but I have seen him making horrible moves (like calling all in pre with AQ35 or something at 10/20 or somethig like that) + those weird ICM calls that was mentioned above.

Last edited by bakyka; 11-17-2011 at 10:01 AM.
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11-18-2011 , 05:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken_jia
Nice! What are your overall thoughts of mastahdonk and jkfocus' playing styles? (I hope neither of them reads this thread...lol)
Mastahdonk does really really weird bad stuff. Hes obviously a good player but as was said later on the amount of times he just blinds down 5/6 handed is just ridiculous.

jkfocus- I thought was just a nitty reg. Yet the more I played against him the more he started adapting, widening calling ranges etc... I've probably played the most v him as we are both in similar time zones.

Quote:
There are a few regs whos play I respect at the tables: waltiph, Juicy, züri, mastah, Karl Marx, manndl, DuncanMalloy, Delbertt, DrKoolDan, tj2612, drobysh, joe82 + broken_jia
Guilty

Gonna be hitting these bad boys up again soon. Need to rebuild the roll
Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Quote
11-18-2011 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnnaturalDisaster
Disregarding volume I would rank Manndl as the best at 3.5s and Hammr as the best at 18 mans overall.
Wow thx.hammr was a real beast at the old 6,50$ 9man s&g,not sure if i ever met him in a 18 man.
Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Quote
11-18-2011 , 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by manndl
Wow thx.hammr was a real beast at the old 6,50$ 9man s&g,not sure if i ever met him in a 18 man.
yw I think I have more history with you in 9 mans than 18 mans but since a lot of players play both I generally judge players on their overall game. Hammr plays the 7 and 15s quite frequently. I probably rank him higher than others because for me he is the most difficult to play against which may not be true for others.
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11-19-2011 , 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken_jia
Also, another thing. I noticed that at the $3.50s, players don't give a **** about ICM. Whether they don't have a good grasp of the concept or just don't care about the tiny pay jumps.

I'd have some really frustrating FTs with mastah who would stall or get chipped down to <1 BB at the bubble or already ITM. It handcuffed what other shortstacks could do and some would just lose their patience by shoving too wide or calling too lose in ICM critical spots.

Also, is this not a ******ed call by JK? I find him calling off with these low only hands a lot.

PokerStars Game #70651416457: Tournament #470060876, $3.16+$0.34 USD Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2011/11/16 15:14:15 ET
Table '470060876 2' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 3: juancoyote1 (5337 in chips)
Seat 7: Juicy_J_93 (3704 in chips)
Seat 8: broken_jia (8726 in chips)
Seat 9: jkfocus (9233 in chips)
juancoyote1: posts the ante 50
Juicy_J_93: posts the ante 50
broken_jia: posts the ante 50
jkfocus: posts the ante 50
broken_jia: posts small blind 400
jkfocus: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to broken_jia [4d Th 8d 6h]
juancoyote1: folds
Juicy_J_93: folds
broken_jia: raises 7876 to 8676 and is all-in
jkfocus: calls 7876
*** FLOP *** [8s 3s 8h]
*** TURN *** [8s 3s 8h] [7h]
*** RIVER *** [8s 3s 8h 7h] [3c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
broken_jia: shows [4d Th 8d 6h] (HI: three of a kind, Eights; LO: 8,7,6,4,3)
jkfocus: shows [5s 4s Ac 8c] (HI: three of a kind, Eights - Ace kicker; LO: 8,7,4,3,A)
jkfocus collected 8776 from pot
jkfocus collected 8776 from pot
broken_jia finished the tournament in 4th place and received $5.68.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 17552 | Rake 0
Board [8s 3s 8h 7h 3c]
Seat 3: juancoyote1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Juicy_J_93 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: broken_jia (small blind) showed [4d Th 8d 6h] and lost with HI: three of a kind, Eights; LO: 8,7,6,4,3
Seat 9: jkfocus (big blind) showed [5s 4s Ac 8c] and won (17552) with HI: three of a kind, Eights; LO: 8,7,4,3,A
Nope. When playing these regularly I would make calls with DS A*** hands like that ITM with less regard to stack sizes, especially if someone is shoving as LAG wide as 4d Th 8d 6h(and wider no doubt in this spot)!! No doubt you can show me some ICM maths suggesting this is bad. He made a solid call against your range if not a solid ICM call. As it was he was a 60:40 fav.
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11-19-2011 , 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by streityboy
Nope. When playing these regularly I would make calls with DS A*** hands like that ITM with less regard to stack sizes, especially if someone is shoving as LAG wide as 4d Th 8d 6h(and wider no doubt in this spot)!! No doubt you can show me some ICM maths suggesting this is bad. He made a solid call against your range if not a solid ICM call. As it was he was a 60:40 fav.
Against my range, he's flipping which I think is a +cEV call but not a +EV call when you include ICM considerations. Your goal in a SNG with a flat payout of 10%,20%,30%,40% isn't to call for your tourney life in a spot where you have no fold equity.

I think a reasonable shove % is 40% of my range. If you widen it to 50 or tighten it to 30, his actual hand can be slightly behind.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
Ac8c4s5s51.84% 215,383289,97919,004200,04032,875
40%48.16% 199,144291,01719,00484,32932,875

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
Ac8c4s5s53.21% 226,742296,01416,563211,09928,314
50%46.79% 193,891287,42316,56378,36928,314

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
Ac8c4s5s49.78% 199,519281,89321,457182,63739,385
30%50.22% 208,049296,65021,45792,48439,385

Rarely will he be a 60/40 fav like he was in this case. The main reason being us sharing 2 cards. Also, against any bigger A, this hand is flipping at best:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
Ac8c4s5s48.61% 195,486260,19112,704223,38338,709
AT**51.39% 219,375327,10512,70463,05338,709

Sorry, just woke up, so might not be thinking all that straight, but let the #s do the talking for me.
Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Quote
11-19-2011 , 09:16 AM
Quote:
Against my range, he's flipping which I think is a +cEV call but not a +EV call when you include ICM considerations. Your goal in a SNG with a flat payout of 10%,20%,30%,40% isn't to call for your tourney life in a spot where you have no fold equity.
ICM mistake yes. However in this one hand he has just forced you into questioning your push/fold range.

There are alot of hands where I know the math is going to prove that I am making an ICM mistake. However I also know that by taking a tiny $ mistake on one hand I make it back more on hands further on in the tourney.

Dear Spain- Please never ban online poker!!
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11-20-2011 , 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PItom
ICM mistake yes. However in this one hand he has just forced you into questioning your push/fold range.

There are alot of hands where I know the math is going to prove that I am making an ICM mistake. However I also know that by taking a tiny $ mistake on one hand I make it back more on hands further on in the tourney.

Dear Spain- Please never ban online poker!!
I think his fundamentals regarding ICM is off. He's making this call 99/100 times in this spot, not doing it a few times now to get me to tighten up my future shove range later on (and tightening his as well). I do agree that with a bigger stack, your EV goes up since you'll have a lot of situations where the short stacks have very similar stacks and they're forced to play this cat and mouse game.
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11-20-2011 , 05:49 PM
Finally i had a goodrun today! Played like 160 SnG's today (already a brag for me ) and i'm almost 600 Bucks up. Made some misclicks but overall it worked pretty good. Still only earned like 1.8k VPP this month, so i'll need to do some more big sessions^^.
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11-21-2011 , 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophili
Finally i had a goodrun today! Played like 160 SnG's today (already a brag for me ) and i'm almost 600 Bucks up. Made some misclicks but overall it worked pretty good. Still only earned like 1.8k VPP this month, so i'll need to do some more big sessions^^.
wow big session with a nice heater
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11-22-2011 , 06:56 PM
This guy just doesnt like to fold, eh?


PokerStars Game #70979016404: Tournament #473066730, $6.45+$0.55 USD Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit - Level XII (600/1200) - 2011/11/22 17:52:35 ET
Table '473066730 2' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 3: wadzon (12189 in chips)
Seat 6: Crissi777 (2408 in chips)
Seat 7: broken_jia (12403 in chips)
wadzon: posts the ante 75
Crissi777: posts the ante 75
broken_jia: posts the ante 75
broken_jia: posts small blind 600
wadzon: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to broken_jia [Jc 4s 5c Ah]
Crissi777: folds
broken_jia: raises 11128 to 12328 and is all-in
wadzon: calls 10914 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (214) returned to broken_jia
*** FLOP *** [As 2d 5d]
*** TURN *** [As 2d 5d] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [As 2d 5d 2s] [3c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
broken_jia: shows [Jc 4s 5c Ah] (HI: a straight, Ace to Five; LO: 5,4,3,2,A)
wadzon: shows [Ks 6h Tc 4c] (HI: a straight, Deuce to Six; LO: 6,4,3,2,A)
wadzon collected 12227 from pot
broken_jia collected 12226 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 24453 | Rake 0
Board [As 2d 5d 2s 3c]
Seat 3: wadzon (big blind) showed [Ks 6h Tc 4c] and won (12227) with HI: a straight, Deuce to Six; LO: 6,4,3,2,A
Seat 6: Crissi777 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: broken_jia (small blind) showed [Jc 4s 5c Ah] and won (12226) with HI: a straight, Ace to Five; LO: 5,4,3,2,A
Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Quote
11-22-2011 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken_jia
This guy just doesnt like to fold, eh?
wadzon? No, he doesnt.
Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Quote
11-22-2011 , 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by manndl
wow big session with a nice heater
Thanks Played about 350 SnG's the last 3 days and i'm USD 1350 up. But still loosing player in Mtt's

Probably only bogdaniel111 is running hotter, he's up like 5.6k after 1.3k SnG's O_o
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11-22-2011 , 08:01 PM
wazdon is an absolut donk. he gets it in bad like always and at least against me never loses. guy costs me tousends.

If we have more regulars interested, im chartering a plane to wherever he lives so we can tattoo QQ46 on his fkn forehead.

ok i came down. Seriously after losing some steam here the guy needs to lose NOW.
Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Quote
11-22-2011 , 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophili
Thanks Played about 350 SnG's the last 3 days and i'm USD 1350 up. But still loosing player in Mtt's

Probably only bogdaniel111 is running hotter, he's up like 5.6k after 1.3k SnG's O_o
seriously? thats like almost $4 per game. Are you playing only the $7s and $15s?
Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Quote
11-23-2011 , 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophili
Thanks Played about 350 SnG's the last 3 days and i'm USD 1350 up. But still loosing player in Mtt's

Probably only bogdaniel111 is running hotter, he's up like 5.6k after 1.3k SnG's O_o
Wow, congrats. Nice run
Unofficial Stars 18-man SNG turbo Thread Quote
11-23-2011 , 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken_jia
seriously? thats like almost $4 per game. Are you playing only the $7s and $15s?
Nah usually i play 3.5-15, some fishy 30 and sometimes 1.5...



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But played the 500 SnG's breakeven... so it's deserved :P

Last edited by Prophili; 11-23-2011 at 10:56 AM.
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