I spoke to Greg just now with my view on this, which I will now share.

In short, the facts as I understand them:
-Both agreed volume was going to be insufficient to continue the deal due to health reasons/time constraints
-Both agreed $2500 buyout
-Greg paid $600 in 2x$300 installments
-Greg now owes $1900

Problems which led to this dispute, as I understand them:
-Failure to disclose terms in full prior to the staking deal, such as those relating to buyouts and makeup
-Failure to disclose and agree terms of timely repayment, e.g amount of affordable installments to be paid and the duration of time between each installment
-Persistent badgering/harrassment of Greg by Bokkie/Sjappie to pay in full
-Both parties abusing each other/general anger
-Threats made by Bokkie regarding family/facebook of Greg, outing in the community as underhanded etc
-Outright refusal to pay buyout by Greg, further proliferating suspicion regarding Greg's reputation in the community

Suggested Resolution:
Agree affordable installment amounts to be paid, the duration of time between each repayment, agree to cease abuse/coercion, mutually apologise for conduct, cease persistent demands, agree acceptable procedure in case of default.

If I am wrong about any of the facts or problems leading to the dispute, correct me.

If that was true, wouldn't we all start sitting in at your tables all the time?

Legit, it's like 99% off-topic chat like betting and stuff and very rarely strategy. It's just nice to talk to other like-minded people. It's pretty much the same thing we're all doing by posting in this forum!

the fact is that we made agreement from both side that he would pay me when he had money
he won 125k and for some reason he still cant ( is not willing to )pay me

Welcome to the real world.

Do you have any idea how much of that money is his and if he's on payback with anyone else? You don't know. You may THINK you know, but you don't.

I know the last thing you want to hear is: "Well, you're lucky if that's all you got cheated out of", but in the poker world? Yes, those are the facts, unfortunately, and the reality of what poker players REALLY are, well, the ones who need to be staked anyway. Don't stake/loan an amount that would ever make a difference to you in your life. Money goes back and fourth in our community and at some point the money just stops, someone doesn't get that last "baton" handed to them.

If he pays you back, consider it a one-outer. If you stake again, that one-outer might not hit. And it sucks for the poker players that are really good people and who have good intentions and values when it comes to this stuff. But, even then, sometimes life happens and it's not what they intended to do, which, is another reason why staking and loaning is such a gamble.

If anything, you got the word out and it may prevent the next guy from helping him out down the road. But probably not. There's a sucker born every minute.

i agree with most what you say but i truly believe that there are 25-5% of poker players who are truly really honest people when it comes to money. The problem is that those guys are very hard to spot and it has no correlation with if they are friendly to you (at first)
Good guys suffer from bad guys i think staking should be bant out of poker world anyway. if you play to high just sell % of buyin . And if you dont have the money just grind it out lower. from makeup there always coming huge problems.

Wonder what you were thinking when he was opening KQ27 UTG in second place 5 handed.... pretty scummy not to ICM hide and do your best to ladder when you owe money and are at a 10k final table....

If you only cheat the players not in your group very rarely or only 1% of the time I guess it is OK

Scary. How did he win $125K? If he did not pay he must be in a mountain of debt otherwise who cares about $5K?

Probably thinking the same thing as players who already bust after trelskig 4-bet 4 9 J Q rainbow and flop nuts

Anyone who knows how trelskig plays knows that when it works it works really well and it when it doesn't work it works really poorly. His play is a reflection of his thought processes, that is the essence of poker after all. I mean, he makes mddgfc look like a brilliant technician.

Makeup and everything that comes with it is always implied in long term staking deals unless it is specifically stated otherwise. As a veteran stake horse I find it extremely hard to believe you're ignorant to how staking works...

Why would he want you playing games he never agreed to in the first place that you're -EV in? You can't just change the terms of a deal because things aren't going your way and you figure it'll be a headache to grind out of makeup at the same stakes.

Why on god's green earth would you assume it's ok to start grinding Stars MTTs again under a new backer when you still had the ongoing situation with Bokkie? It looks exactly like a shady horse trying to ditch their old backer and ignore their makeup, which is apparently what you do on the regular?

Honestly from what I remember of his "style" he probably thinks both of those plays are +EV.

I'm not in any such groups, but how is talking strategy (even specifically about how to beat one person) cheating?

Too clarify i never say they cheating together. But maybe you can imagene it does not feel good when i play in 3 way game for thousand of $ with kuhn89 and silentpurple and i know they texting during the game on skype or even have a skype conversation with each other. (did happen btw)

yes i do think there will be (unaware) soft play because they feel it them against me.

The amount of cluelessness and victim blaming here is pretty sad. Bokkie, hope you get it back, I know how annoying this is. Greg, pull your **** together, idk you well enough, but I never thought you could pull this. If this is a result of mental issues, seek help.

Bike. I have been a member of two of the main 08 groups for a few years. UN and grim were correct in previous posts. It's betting, football, politics, music and boomplayer etc. Little strategy discussion. Kuhns and I believe purple aren't in the groups i am in (but i could be wrong).

Ive been in that group for years and can honestly say ive never seen your name come up in anyway that could be used to "beat you", it's mainly a casual chat thread on football and politics and occasionaly a sweat thread and the odd boom hand.

Also surprised by this whole debacle as i find both bokkie a trelskig ok to get on with but this doesn't sound that great.

Hope you both get this settled, shame to see this dragged put for a few k.

As usual Bike randomly trying to derail a thread and try to make it about himself lol. People are not teaming up to try and beat you, or are even talking about you. Stop being so crazy and paranoid.

Yeah. Greg gonna Greg and just lolICM. And I believe you're thinking of the QT27 utg open his.

In all seriousness, I completely agree with Czar_Chasm, and marek.
Greg you come off seriously terribly and unhinged in the last half of that huge skype post.
Bokkie seems very much in the right and is being reasonable. He didn't have to do or accept anything new that you offered him.
It seems pretty clear that you still owe him. And your barrage of abuse at him doesn't help the situation, and just makes you seem kind of crazy, especially when you don't address Bokkie's points properly.
As well as various other things you said/are doing like going under a 2nd backer, and saying if you get harassed you won't give pay anything. Both classic scummy moves. You should have already paid him so that it didn't come to that/this.
I think you should take a step back from it.

Bokkie I hope you get the money.

tx for all the support guys

Thieving bastard

People are surprised here? I could have sworn he was a really nice guy all along....

this just proves time and time again that staking other players is not a good idea...
esp in hi low lol...
mtts are increasingly hard to win... rake is higher... and with the way the cards come out now make anyone want to tilt and play bad...and making incomes to live on at mtt is hard...
see you guys in wcoops, im off it
working on my side business become vandir rich lol... i hope...

sorry about your losses bokkie, you da man in my eyes

.^sc

In a game as low variance as O8, it should make any potential investor suspicious if a player usually needs a stake. That player is probably unrealistic about his abilities, the profitability (% and/or total) at each stakes, or has other financial issues. When you hit practically the score of a lifetime in O8 and people still have to hound you for money, that isn't a good sign.

OT: Whatever happened with MattydaCobra?

Another 'top' player going bust and scamming lol

Guess he could start streaming on Twitch, that seems to be the place to go for struggling 'top' players to get a few quid.

(yes i know there are some good profitable players on twitch)