I logged on today in the afternoon and thought wow this is sick for european peak time, especially if u grind alot of tables like me,, but weak the 215/82 weeklies have gone.

Defo need them back and a 215 sunday hyper.

Also think too many micros but i might be hiased but everythi 6 max is huge ev for regs

omania payouts are strange
they are made for 5max in my eyes and not 6max...

all rebuy satellite tournament to the omanias are gone too

I am yet to decide if I like the changes as I haven't played yet. I think the biggest challenge is every tourney now being 6 max when previous tourney's were all 9 max. Massive change all of a sudden with direct implications to whether or not I still win. Time will tell.

Think those payouts may be a technical error. May want to bring it up in the Stars MTT thread that Jia links to.

So what are we supposed to do on weekends? Drink Finlandia and try to score some drunken tarts?

wouldn't you prefer that to playing mtts anyway?

U actually make $$$ in O8


I thought u are just like me and just play it for the of the game...

Without a doubt, as MTTs are more expensive.

@broken_jia

earlier this year from Stars MTT thread:

That statement leaves quite a sour taste. Can you elaborate how much you were involved in the new schedule?

I know you and I have not seen eye to eye in the past on certain topics, but my agenda was never ever to kill off all the mid-high stake big bet O8 games.

To answer your question, I was part of a Skype group of 7-8 Stars players that were supposed to provide feedback and guidance to Luke on the creation of the new schedule. anuj22 and myself were asked to join to offer suggestions for non-holdem games, as Luke is primarily a Holdem player.

Unfortunately, during the entire process we never had any opportunity to provide feedback at all for non-holdem games. 99% of Luke's time was spent on tweaking the No Limit Holdem schedule and on the day of his deadline to submit the final schedule, he said he had finished the non-holdem schedule all by himself.

The only thing we had knowledge of in advance were 1) The time, buyin and format of the new Omanias and 2) The $530 PLO/PLO8 becoming $320 re-entries.

When the schedule came out, I was completely taken by surprise to see the following changes which I'm totally against:
1) Weekend 82 and 215s taken away from PLO, PLO8, NLO8.
2) All Omaha games being converted into 6-max
3) All non-PKO games being made re-entries.
4) The non-peak (where the old $27 Omania used to be) being completely all micro-low stakes.

In case I wasn't clear, I had zero influence on the final schedule.

My agenda in the past year has been to try to get more NLO8 hypers on the schedule and to have a balanced schedule where a player can wake up at any time of the day and find a game at all stakes ($3.30 to $55). The fact that the # of NLO8 hypers went down and that there isn't a $27 O8 game running for a 14 hour period is definitely not in-line with something I would've suggested.

I've tried to share my opinions on the four above topics after the schedule was released into the client and Luke has been cherry picking the questions he wishes to answer, many which don't address any of the four points.

Because of all the negativity around the NLHoldem structures being too fast, he has told us that at least the first week will be focused on that and adjusting guarantees. Due to those comments, I've pretty much stopped
posting suggestions in the 2+2 thread or in the Skype group because I don't expect any of what I write to get through to him.

I fully expect him to bring back most of the weekend games eventually, but the fact that they weren't part of the original schedule just shows how little knowledge he has of the non-holdem games.

Thanks for all the info. I feel like I should have sent you a pm instead of calling you out here. I guess it's the shock, my apologies.

This schedule is so wrong...

You notoriously overlook LO8.
The $215 PL/NL needs to start 2-3h later. Ever since they were moved ahead they've lost a lot of players. I would even start them simultaneously with the $82 as 'Weekly-L' and 'Weekly-H'

I agree, mainly because in small field tourneys you find yourself effectively playing 4/5-handed most of the time in a 6-max game. I do suggest 8-max.

The smallest issue of them all imo. Although I believe ever since the Daily $109 PLO8 got converted into a $82 re-entry it had lost unique players (probably the odd rec)

How he wiped them all off at one shot is beyond...

$82 NLO Hyper
$27 PLO8
$27 NLO8 Omania
$27 LO8 Daily
$7.50+ NLO8 Hyper
$27 NLO8 Hyper
$11+ PLO8
$22 PLO8
$55 NLO8 Hyper
$55 NLO8 Hyper

All gone!


Another word to the Omanias:
I haven't played them, but they are now turbo-ish right? That's definitely bad. Also I don't understand why we still don't have a high(er) stakes Omania. I suggest to convert the former $82 into Omania and also add a $27 LO8 now that the Daily is gone.

And last not least 16:30 (ET) Sunday $215 NLO8 Hyper (non PKO)


I hope you can bring up some of these idea to Luke, since he never replies in the MTT thread.

Those first three seem to be there still.

The Omanias have 10 minute blind levels. This was always the case, right? And, they are triple stackers (4500 total chips vs 3000 previously), so they should still play pretty slowly.

Yes they are even too slow in the end part.

In the level 30 after 5+ hour of play BB was 6.4K. Everyone in the FT had stacks of 100K-300K. It was sloooow...

what 8 players are that? pretty bad if you know deadline you dont make a schedule yourself and do the work instead let luke do it in rush and **** it up in some ways.

I think we should take action and at least tweek the schedule. I am totally fine to think about the higher buyins and put time in them and discuss it with lot of higher stakes o8 reg. If there can people do the same for medium and high we can improve a lot.

No worries, GTXR1. I understand your frustrations.

I personally don't play FLO8, but the daily $27 didn't warrant being taken off the schedule. The Sunday $82 and $215s weren't getting enough numbers to be kept in the same time slot/buyin. I think if he made the buyins $55 on Sat and $82 on Sunday, you guys wouldn't feel as bad. I think FLO8 and 2-7 Triple Draw have a lot of HS potential where a 1050 or 530 game probably gets more players than a 215.

Re: 6-max and re-entry. I think the two changes were strategically done together to maximize the amount of rake they earn in the short term. If all tournaments were 9-max, players will be able to play more tournaments simultaneously, but the # of re-entries would be less. This is a calculated move, but Amaya's Business Intelligence team would've run some calcs and figured out that this maximizes revenue in the immediate future.

I think making 80% of the tournaments re-entry is really, really unhealthy for the ecosystem. Instead of the regs winning most of the money with Amaya getting 1x rake, they'll win almost all of the money with getting up to 4x rake in each tournament. The only games where this isn't as bad is in hypers because the late reg period is shorter.

Don't think I can share who the other players were. It's pretty obvious that doggz was one of the players. There was one Team Pro Online who plays a lot of Holdem MTTs though.

The Skype Group was created at the beginning of Feb and we didn't find out that the new schedule launch date until around the beginning of April or so.

When I found out the launch date, I did make a schedule of the old PLO, PLO8, NLO8 schedules and what areas could be improved. A rough copy of a new PLO8 and NLO8 schedule was done. It just was not considered by Luke because he spent too much time with Holdem and ignored it. The deadline for Luke to submit the schedule was Apr. 20, I think. He did non-holdem one day before the deadline all by himself not because he didn't have any documents to help him.

You're more than welcome to. I think he'd appreciate the input of you and other hs regs.

8 minutes blind levels(at least on monday,the last time i played one)

Yes but i am not going to take a lot of time, effort, speaking with other, analyse, lots of thinking. to just be 1 of all people screaming there demands.

For example if i would come to the conclusion (after analyse, speaking to people etc) that it does make a lot of sense to have highstakes o8 toernement re-entrie.
reason for that could be
for stars:
1.more rake
2. the guys who play those will not really have negative effect on other tournaments because the do not multi table like guys on micro stakes
3. The losing player are mostly guys who made lot in poker or guys who made lot in reall life they both even could like reentrie and this kind of fun money is very different then averge joe big 22 fun money

reasons for players:
1.it more fun to have at least option to reentrie (you dont have to use it)
2. best players can win more
3. bigger prize pouls

then is just very frustated if some "random" (who does maybe not even play highstakes) just post after me that reentries suck. luke just get lot of confliction from the o8 community mostly because lot of people dont know where they talking about and how to effectivly grow o8 games. (also 6max/9max anties etc)

We as community ofcourse have to deal with poker getting less en sites more greedy but the o8 community can compensate this by trying to grow and get more people from holdem playing this game. with a very good mtt schedule i think this is possible.

tl;dr
i think there should be group of 5 or something people who will be respected by luke (and in contact with him about this plan) that will do lot of research what should be better witch tournement,what should be added and when. Ofcourse those 5 people will disagree on stuff but if this will be within the group that people have to compromise and then stand together behind the full plan.

i am happy if i can be 1 of the players and am totally fine to speak for big plan that is worked out even if i disagree on 25% of it. (it will still have way more positive inpact then lett luke guess what to do, he does not care about o8 only stars)

I cant believe they removed every single O8 full ring mtt hopefully we can all speak up in the mtt thread linked in the OP and stars will bring them back

I think we can agree theres plenty of o8 white mtt filler (bunch of new hypers, turbos and pskos). We should focus on getting back some weekly majors rather than bicker than one particular small field hyper/turbo is not there anymore when in reality theres 3 new similar ones around it

+1

I think it's important to be constructive on all of this as obviously it is great to have more Omaha tournament options but it is strange to me that they have suddenly made every single MTT 6-Max...imagine the reaction if this happened in NLHE. I'm definitely cool with there being more 6-max but I think there is still an overall majority in favour of full-ring games, too.

I agree that there should be a bigger buy-in Omania...they have added a $55 PLO so no reason for there not to be a $55 Hi-Lo or even a $109. There is a steady mix of tournaments from micros up to around $55 level then like a huge jump up to the Weekly $320's, if I am not mistaken. So this could certainly be something which requires addressing.

What about the creation of some bounty builders so there is something more comparable to the red flag NLHE PKO events. It seems to be a general trend that they are incorporating more and more KO tournaments throughout the schedule so it would be nice to have some events with bigger buyins or guarantees.

If there is somewhere better to be writing comments on all of this then let me know and will be more than happy to get involved in the discussion.

Regarding 6-max...

If we want to attract more players to O8, it might be a more appealing transition from hold'em for them if they can try some full-ring tournies.

Likewise, if 6-max really gives regs a huge edge, some casual players might go BACK to hold'em if they find themselves struggling too much.

there nothing wrong with 6 max. omaha cash is also rarely played 9 max. the guys who whine about this do just wanne gane an advantage on fish with really nittie play because the fish get bored and go to play to much hands for 9 max. 9 max not good for good players and not good for fun players no need for 9 max imo.

there are lot more problems with 9 max what people dont see, for example you get way shorter play because hands played for hour is SO MUCH LESS then 6 max. that what mostly hated from mtt everyone is soo slow most of time. in 6 max it was less and you can play more hands on averge correctly. And that holdem players will not play 6 max format is nonsense a lot of holdem MTT are also 6 max now


this what i mean with people talking stuff but do not know where they talking about

+2

You are missing the point, nobody is saying there is anything wrong with having 6 max mtts the problem is that people who prefer full ring no longer have that option.

There is no need for a debate about which format is better as there is no reason that both formats cant continue co-exist like they have done in the past.