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Sick 1/2 PLO8 Deep Stacked Spot HELP Sick 1/2 PLO8 Deep Stacked Spot HELP

03-29-2017 , 01:03 PM
Playing 1/2 PLO8 DeepStacked. I have never posted before so I don't really know how to post hands. I will try to make it as easy to understand as possible. The game is really aggressive and deep and it plays more like a 5/5 or even 5/10. I have seen some really egregious hands turned up in huge pots. The Nut low generally doesn't carry as much value because the table is so deep and SPR is really high. On with it we go.

I am on the Button with AcJh3h6s 3500$ stack. Loose fish raises to 10$UTG, everyone but UTG+2 calls. Flop is Js6d5c. UTG+1 (solid aggressive player) has $590 and leads for pot which is 70$. I raise to 250$ trying to isolate. The big blind (2000$ who I have no reads on) thinks for a few seconds and looks really hesitant but eventually coldcalls behind me. It goes back to UTG+1 who goes all in for a total of 590$. WHAT DO I DO???? In a readless situation, how should I handle the cold caller, as my hand does not play well in a 3-way pot in HI-LO. Thanks guys!
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03-29-2017 , 02:12 PM
I would just jam and put the BB all-in. Seems unlikely he has hands that you really fear given his hesitant cold call. You may pay a pretty penny for it but you'll get your read on him one way or the other.
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03-29-2017 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard33
I would just jam and put the BB all-in. Seems unlikely he has hands that you really fear given his hesitant cold call. You may pay a pretty penny for it but you'll get your read on him one way or the other.
Yeah. This is the response I was looking for. I would like more responses before I post the spoiler but basically he tank called with JJQT, UTG+1 has A234. YUCK
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03-29-2017 , 06:44 PM
Usually the response to these threads is "ul, nothing you could do". However, I think this is different. You have SPR 30 vs BB. Raising to isolate is very ambitious and I think it's just a mistake.
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03-29-2017 , 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
Usually the response to these threads is "ul, nothing you could do". However, I think this is different. You have SPR 30 vs BB. Raising to isolate is very ambitious and I think it's just a mistake.
So are you saying just flat the 70 and allow any and alll hands behind to come along? If I do so I am inviting any A2 type hand in a 7way pot to ride along to the turn. Especially against a hand like A25Q. At what point should I have done something different, and what exactly should I have done. It's easy to make these types of decisions after I have told you BB has pocket jacks. Remember I have zero information before I make it 250 on the flop.
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03-29-2017 , 08:15 PM
Yes, that is what I'm saying. You must understand that while your hand is very good with small SPR, it's troublesome this deep, as by raising you are tightening villains' continuing ranges to the point where you are no longer pushing equity, but on the contrary you are close to flipping or dominated.
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03-29-2017 , 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtheone69
Yeah. This is the response I was looking for. I would like more responses before I post the spoiler but basically he tank called with JJQT, UTG+1 has A234. YUCK
Just my advice for the hand as played. Much better suited for the hypers i play than a deep stack cash game so +1 to amok. Flat the flop and then you can easily fold your 6% equity when it goes raise/reraise as it should have. You are at least lucky the BB let you freeroll the side pot for 1/2 of it.
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03-29-2017 , 09:21 PM
While I understand your points completely, why wouldn't I want to isolate a hand like A25x, or maybe even A2xx, or even 234x? I think your points about the stack size of big blind is spot on, but I do think it's incorrect not to reraise UTG+1. This hand is just about worthless in a multiway pot. I think we are playing way too passive if we are flatting here and allowing 55, A2, and wrap type hands to continue. Perhaps it's just a fold once BB cold calls, and UTG+1 ships. I'm a coin flip against A234. I have had money in worse before, but so many other hands I will be dominating against this type of lead on the flop. It is a gross spot to be in, I think it's just tough that the set of jacks just called on the flop forcing me to make a decision for his whole stack. I didn't just flat. I read weakness and shipped with (in worst case scenario, 38% equity) on the side pot. Please keep the comments coming. He literally took 45 seconds to call on the flop after I went all in.
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03-29-2017 , 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtheone69
While I understand your points completely, why wouldn't I want to isolate a hand like A25x, or maybe even A2xx, or even 234x?
I am just introducing the possibility that it's better to not try to isolate with your actual hand. If you think about all the hands you could have here, you are not that close to the top of your range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtheone69
I think your points about the stack size of big blind is spot on, but I do think it's incorrect not to reraise UTG+1. This hand is just about worthless in a multiway pot. I think we are playing way too passive if we are flatting here and allowing 55, A2, and wrap type hands to continue.
So here we just disagree. I think it's nice to have a hand this strong in the flatting range. It's not worthless at all, as there are 8 great cards for us (2,6,J). You are a bit stuck on the thought that you need to protect your hand. What if your hand is just not strong enough to be protected at this depth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtheone69
Perhaps it's just a fold once BB cold calls, and UTG+1 ships. I'm a coin flip against A234. I have had money in worse before, but so many other hands I will be dominating against this type of lead on the flop. It is a gross spot to be in, I think it's just tough that the set of jacks just called on the flop forcing me to make a decision for his whole stack. I didn't just flat. I read weakness and shipped with (in worst case scenario, 38% equity) on the side pot. Please keep the comments coming. He literally took 45 seconds to call on the flop after I went all in.
Perhaps it indeed is a fold once cold called and shoved. Or then they both have A2+draw and you feel silly.
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03-30-2017 , 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
I am just introducing the possibility that it's better to not try to isolate with your actual hand. If you think about all the hands you could have here, you are not that close to the top of your range.


So here we just disagree. I think it's nice to have a hand this strong in the flatting range. It's not worthless at all, as there are 8 great cards for us (2,6,J). You are a bit stuck on the thought that you need to protect your hand. What if your hand is just not strong enough to be protected at this depth?

Perhaps it indeed is a fold once cold called and shoved. Or then they both have A2+draw and you feel silly.
i guess you are right. My thinking was that as soon as any low card that completes A2 comes in, my hand is extremely vulnerable to back door straights as well, and K's and Q's really aren't as safe as you would think. It's a tricky hand that plays best all in, just not this deep. I regretfully, am used to playing with closer to 2-300 big blinds. Not over 1000. Thanks for comments.
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03-31-2017 , 12:09 PM
Should BB really be so hesitant? He can't be more than 3:2 dog.
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03-31-2017 , 01:37 PM
He's not folding obviously. I think both tanking and flatting are great.
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03-31-2017 , 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
I am just introducing the possibility that it's better to not try to isolate with your actual hand. If you think about all the hands you could have here, you are not that close to the top of your range.


So here we just disagree. I think it's nice to have a hand this strong in the flatting range. It's not worthless at all, as there are 8 great cards for us (2,6,J). You are a bit stuck on the thought that you need to protect your hand. What if your hand is just not strong enough to be protected at this depth?

Perhaps it indeed is a fold once cold called and shoved. Or then they both have A2+draw and you feel silly.
pretty much all of this

but if the 3 was a 2, would you start to consider repotting flop instead of flatting?
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04-01-2017 , 03:46 AM
You could just call flop. Your hand is very strong and there aren't really any scare cards for you to worry about on the turn that there's not a need to isolate. That said, in a multiway pot where you have people committing to their hands you have to figure that A3 isn't good for the lo unless a 2 comes. I think you just have the wrong idea about isolating here I can't really speak for the other guy having JJ if this is avoidable or not it is definitely very unfortunate though
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04-01-2017 , 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotuspod2
pretty much all of this

but if the 3 was a 2, would you start to consider repotting flop instead of flatting?
Nice that we are on the same page for once. I think with top2+nld both raising (for value/protection) and flatting (to trap) are good.
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