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Rivering a set on a board with no low Rivering a set on a board with no low

08-09-2017 , 02:09 AM
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL Hi/Lo (6 max) - Omaha Hi/Lo - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 28.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BB: 401 BB (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
Hero (CO): 68 BB
BTN: 72 BB (VPIP: 71.43, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 14)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8 2 2 A

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) Q K 4
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (7 BB, 2 players) J
SB bets 3.5 BB, Hero calls 3.5 BB

River: (14 BB, 2 players) 2
SB bets 10 BB, Hero calls 10 BB

SB shows T 6 A 7 (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 57%, Flop 55%, Turn 83%)
Hero shows 8 2 2 A (Three of a Kind, Twos)
(Pre 43%, Flop 45%, Turn 18%)
SB wins 32.5 BB

----------------------------------------------------------

Alright, so I'm an NL player who's been trying to get into PLO8. I have some questions about this hand I played recently.

Preflop seems standard, I have A2 with the nut suit. Having the 3rd diamond kind of sucks, but this hand seems like a pretty clear open to me.

When the flop misses me, I elect not to c-bet. I do have the backdoor nut flush and nut low draws, but I'm blocking both of those draws myself with the 3rd diamond and the 8. Should I be betting here?

On the turn, I don't want to give up with the NFD yet. I'm blocking the broadway straight, and I don't really expect T9xx to call preflop. With this in mind, I go ahead and decide to float. Is this too sticky?

On the river I think I should have folded looking back. Having 3 diamonds weights Villain's range more towards value as I block his turned flush draws. While I still think it's unlikely he has a straight for the reasons I mentioned earlier, it seems like he can definitely have better sets here. At the time part of my motivation for calling was that I felt he could be value-betting some strong 2P here. In retrospect, I'm not sure if this is true. Seems like folding would have been better.

What do you guys think?
Rivering a set on a board with no low Quote
08-09-2017 , 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose0141
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL Hi/Lo (6 max) - Omaha Hi/Lo - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 28.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BB: 401 BB (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
Hero (CO): 68 BB
BTN: 72 BB (VPIP: 71.43, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 14)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8Rivering a set on a board with no low: 2Rivering a set on a board with no low: 2Rivering a set on a board with no low: ARivering a set on a board with no low:

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) QRivering a set on a board with no low: KRivering a set on a board with no low: 4Rivering a set on a board with no low
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (7 BB, 2 players) JRivering a set on a board with no low:
SB bets 3.5 BB, Hero calls 3.5 BB

River: (14 BB, 2 players) 2Rivering a set on a board with no low
SB bets 10 BB, Hero calls 10 BB

SB shows TRivering a set on a board with no low: 6Rivering a set on a board with no low ARivering a set on a board with no low 7Rivering a set on a board with no low: (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 57%, Flop 55%, Turn 83%)
Hero shows 8Rivering a set on a board with no low: 2Rivering a set on a board with no low: 2Rivering a set on a board with no low: ARivering a set on a board with no low: (Three of a Kind, Twos)
(Pre 43%, Flop 45%, Turn 18%)
SB wins 32.5 BB

----------------------------------------------------------

Alright, so I'm an NL player who's been trying to get into PLO8. I have some questions about this hand I played recently.

Preflop seems standard, I have A2 with the nut suit. Having the 3rd diamond kind of sucks, but this hand seems like a pretty clear open to me.

When the flop misses me, I elect not to c-bet. I do have the backdoor nut flush and nut low draws, but I'm blocking both of those draws myself with the 3rd diamond and the 8. Should I be betting here?

On the turn, I don't want to give up with the NFD yet. I'm blocking the broadway straight, and I don't really expect T9xx to call preflop. With this in mind, I go ahead and decide to float. Is this too sticky?

On the river I think I should have folded looking back. Having 3 diamonds weights Villain's range more towards value as I block his turned flush draws. While I still think it's unlikely he has a straight for the reasons I mentioned earlier, it seems like he can definitely have better sets here. At the time part of my motivation for calling was that I felt he could be value-betting some strong 2P here. In retrospect, I'm not sure if this is true. Seems like folding would have been better.

What do you guys think?
Low is drowned on the turn, and you really now only have a NFD, and no chance for a straight. Villain's half pot bet is a tad fishy as it appears he wants a call, which, as it turns out, is exactly the case. Also, it gives you -EV to call, unless you think he is going to bomb a diamond on the river or call your value bet (most won't in a PL game). Fold turn, and as for the river play, I'd argue that you should be folding if you didn't consider a 2 to be one of your outs (which, you shouldn't). Bottom set on a straightened board is just enough to suck people into a crying call, which is fine in limit, but not PL.
Good luck and welcome to a far more interesting game than NLHE!

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Rivering a set on a board with no low Quote
08-09-2017 , 09:04 AM
I'd lean towards a bet(-fold) on the flop, because your hand is pretty weak.

Turn I think calling is fine since his bet is small.

I think your own comment nails it why river is preferably a fold. Calling is not terrible of course, but I don't think you are beating any value bets.
Rivering a set on a board with no low Quote
08-09-2017 , 09:15 AM
LOL at folding turn. Calling is super standard. River is close, but I'd fold unless villain sucks.
Rivering a set on a board with no low Quote
08-09-2017 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichGangi
LOL at folding turn. Calling is super standard. River is close, but I'd fold unless villain sucks.
In a limit game? I 100% agree. Pot limit? I don't know... Probably IS a super standard call, especially live where most are just approximating what's in the pot. Math-wise, I need to figure my nut flush is getting paid off a non-zero percent of the time, for that to be a profitable line.
Rich, if we do make our NF, how much are your betting to induce a call?

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Rivering a set on a board with no low Quote
08-09-2017 , 01:28 PM
I'm betting ~3/4 pot if checked to. I am far from a PL/NL expert tho.
Rivering a set on a board with no low Quote
08-09-2017 , 05:09 PM
Theoretically, I believe the best bet size on the river is pot (assuming flush comes and we are checked to).
Rivering a set on a board with no low Quote
08-09-2017 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
Theoretically, I believe the best bet size on the river is pot (assuming flush comes and we are checked to).
Are you saying that reducing the bet to anything less than a PSB picks up no extra callers? Or that you should never be betting anything other than the pot?

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Rivering a set on a board with no low Quote
08-09-2017 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRGCardinal
Are you saying that reducing the bet to anything less than a PSB picks up no extra callers? Or that you should never be betting anything other than the pot?
I am saying that in a spot where you should be polarizing your range, PSB gives the best theoretical result. A smaller bet picks up a lot more (theoretically) correct calls.
Rivering a set on a board with no low Quote

      
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