Sorry if this is redundant, but the FAQ/sticky on this topic did not answer my question at all so I would like to re-introduce the question -- what sort of bankroll requirements are necessary for LO8, in terms of # of big bets?

Also, one would need to increase this BR number by a decent % if the game is played with a kill or half-kill, correct? Maybe by 30-50% depending on the game & the kill threshold?

I usually play pretty tight, because in the games I play there are usually plenty of aggro-donks who will make big pots & pay me off when I have the goods (I play B&M mostly). I am just wondering what if any guidelines some of the LO8 specialists on 2+2 use.

The general consensus is between 150BB and 250. Depending upon the aggression at the level you play, your style, your familiarity with O8, and an acceptable level of ruin factor that the calculation is derived with.

How did you arrive at a "general consensus"?

"Consensus" implies agreement. I'm not aware of any "agreement" at all.

(If I was aware of one, I'd put it in the FAQ).

Buzz

As long as you winrate is something like 5BB/100+ buhahahahhahahaha

I'd agree with that being the general consensus, but not with that being the required bankroll

What general consensus? (There is no "general consensus" of which I am aware for bankroll requirements of fixed-limit Omaha-8 players).

Your bankroll is a highly individual matter because it depends on (1) your personal win rate and (2) standard deviation. Mason Malmuth has a good discussion of bankroll in his book Gambling Theory and Other Topics. Win rates and standard deviations are (obviously) not the same for all successful Omaha-8 players.

Buzz

Anyone can pull a BR number out of their ass. It is meaningless unless it is derived within a mathematical framework based on a statistical analysis of YOUR results in a representative sample of O8 games.

There is nothing that can be said generally about the subject.

I recently started playing $100/200 and $150/300 O8 in a B&M casino. Prior to that, I didn't need to think about bankroll because I could go bust at $15/30 if I lived to be 100 and played at an EV of negative 5BB/100.

I am going to modify an existing bison parser to pull the win/loss per hand out of my LO8 HH files. I will feed this into Jazbo's Kelly bankroll calculator. I have no idea what this KBR number will be. I do hope it comes out to less than 1000 BB, because that means I shouldn't really be playing $150/300 even though I appear to be +EV in that game.
See: http://www.jazbo.com/poker/kellyp.html

This assumes that my EV and variance are the same online and in B&M. My gut feeling is that the higher-limit B&M O8 games play a lot like O8 in online mid-limit HORSE. I feel these games are softer than online straight LO8 games at mid limits.

Effen

kelly is always going to have u playing on a tiny roll, but moving down if u take losses.

Yes, the answers given towards bankroll requirements have always been a bit disappointing on this forum. You guys are awesome, but ...

Dig ... Omaha is a game of math. That has been mentioned numerous times, but the moment bankroll requirements are asked, suddenly everyone starts being very vague. Rules of thumb, what they feel is acceptable, what they sorta have been using ...

God, makes me cringe.

Its very simple. You simply need your win rate and standard deviation.

(SD)^2 / win rate = Full Kelly bankroll (13.5% ROR)

Double it to have less than a 2% risk of ruin.

Pretty easy.

So, if your SD over the past 100,000 hands is 15, and your win rate 2 ... you'd need somewhere around 110 units for a 13.5% ROR, or 220 units for <2%.

So as a service to those interested in what bankroll requirements are for various winning players, post your SD and win rate and we'll come up with some definitive answers.


(Edit: It occurs to me that some of you might not know the ramifications of betting off a Full Kelly bankroll. Anytime you ROR approaches 13%, normal fluctuations will give you a 50% chance of seeing your bankroll cut in half at some point. Doubling your bankroll will drop that possibility to about 12% or so, which is generally more in tune with most players aversion to risk. See this link for the nitty gritty:

http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/proport/riskpaper1.pdf )

Thank you.

That will be greatly appreciated. And I referenced this thread in the FAQ for those who want to know more about bankrolls.

Now I'm going to lock this thread because it's part of the FAQ.

Please start another thread if you have more to add about bankroll or if you want Fluxboy to come up with a definitive answer for you.

Buzz

Bump.

Threads older than February 1 are to be automatically archived next month in preparation for an upgrade. I'm bumping all 2+2 threads cited in our two stickies that are not already archived so that they will not be lost to us.

This includes all the wells.

Buzz