Was discussing some short handed FLO8 strategy with an acquaintance recently, and the topic of position came up of course.

I made the statement that starting hands are much closer to each other in O8 than in regular Omaha or Holdem. I thought that this makes position even more important in O8. Whereas AQo might be a trouble hand while UTG in holdem, a hand of O8 needs to be stronger than this to be played UTG, for a raise of course, because it is that much harder to extract the equity back later in the hand.
In fixed limit, the player in position gets to decide last in the hand if the river will be a fold or bet or a raise or a checkback. When playing to try and earn for 5-10BB/100 that is a huge edge!

I can only assume in PLO8 that the player in position gets to decide whom, if any, will be getting in that massive pot sized bet.

There is the other side of it, heads up or three handed, that the first player who can bet at a very wet board might take it down right there, and that has merit in the whirlwind of very short handed poker. But lets say we are discussing position among 5-9 players for the purpose of this thread.

Whay say ye? Is UTG a tighter range of playable hands in O8 than in Omaha or Holdem?


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O8 in general allows for a looser range of playable hands compared to LHE since equities run closer and "stronger" hands containing A2/A3 UTG are more commonly dealt than ranges you would play UTG in LHE; however, you are quite accurate in your read that the position is much more important O8 as opposed to LHE.

I think it is the opposite; position is less important in FLO8 than in any other game played with blinds. Usually impossible to steal blinds, exactly because the equities are closer. Also having 9 cards to work with someone has the nuts often, and the fact that it is a split pot game makes bluffing less likely to work.

Also because so many cards are dealt, the card removal effect is stronger; if all early position players have folded, it is much more likely the players in the blinds have aces in their hands, again making it harder to steal the blinds.

The range I will play on the first round in LHE, draw games, and even in stud, changed quite a bit depending on how many players are left to act; in FLO8 it changes very little.

Hmm. Thank you for presenting the opposite side of the argument. Im not sure I agree with all of your points, but really I am talking about UTG first to act ranges among 5-9 players.

Can you reformulate your thoughts regarding the UTG and EP1 seats?

Thank you.


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I agree. It seems obvious to me.

LO8 position, mostly in FR ring games, matters most because it is easier to knock out equity with high hands and non nut low draws where pots are multiway much more often while in LHE this is not the case.

I missed in the first post where you specifically mentioned shorthanded O8 games. I gather from other posts you play mostly 6 max games online. In live poker rooms, shorthanded O8 games almost never exist for long, at least at limits below 20/40. Live O8 players generally hate playing shorthanded. So some of my points were definitely geared towards full ring live games.

I really don't get what Ned is saying about knocking out equity in full ring multiway pots though. As compared with LHE, O8 players seem much more willing to call multiple bets with weak draws - good luck in trying to knock them out!

I'm mostly saying that it can be a bad decision in LHE if you are raising to knock out equity in position/multiway with marginal hands since you are generally very behind when you get 3! In O8 there is rarely a situation where opponents (as well as the Hero on button) are very far behind, while at least in higher stakes games players are more willing to fold hands like TPTK, lower flush draws, straight draws on low boards, bottom two pair, etc.

When you are in early position, against two potential callers, you may be the best low draw, with backdoors for the scoop. Or, you may need a 3 outer just to get half the pot. But you have to bet. You can not give out free turn card. So, all they have to do is look at their hand and decide to call or not. No big deal. But, when they learn how to raise flop, or wait till the turn to raise the monster nuts, you are in a really tough spot, having raise pre and bet flop only to figure out you are screwed, and call two more big bets, or give up all that equity you thought you had.


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