Hello guys the titel says it all. I hope maybe this thread can start some discussion about how we can let pokerstars add highstakes (higher then 10/20) of our great 4 card hi/lo game.

I know most players here will think whatever because the never would play those games anyway but i think even for this players it can be very inportant and benificial.
Because if there will be noise bleed action the game will get a lot more attention and also a lot of new players will rail it and go and try it them self in o8 mtt's and lower cash games.

Maybe it is an idea that we as community or as as much people as possible will make a letter to pokerstars and see they should add higher stakes then 10/20 for 4 card o8. There is now courchevel hi/lo up to 200/400 the same for 5 card pl hi/lo but the great game of pl hi/lo 4 card only up to 10/20 and nl ji/lo only 3/6 what sad too.

Considering Stars openly wants to reduce high stakes action across their whole site, I doubt they'll go for this. Petitioning them will more likely remind that that they still have high stakes 5CPL8 tables which they can deactivate.

Are you looking to go busto even quicker?

no i am just aksing so that i can rail those games

this is not true i think there will be quit some reg battles and the can rake a lot on it. they did not say they going to stop highstakes and i dont see reason why they should do that because the raking since new changes a lot there without rakeback too

The rake they make on the high stakes games is infinitesimal in the grand scheme of things.

They want to discourage high stakes, firstly due to the high transaction fees they take the brunt of on large deposits/withdrawals, but also because of the natural funneling effect of the poker economy. Pokerstars don't want money filtering up the high stakes like it naturally will do, they want it to continue circling in the micros. In a perfect world for Stars the max stakes they offer would be 0.25/0.50.

You dont understand how works and the story you tell is also not true. If we look to this month for example in hi/lo they made by far most rake on highstakes 08 compare to mid stakes. They dont want micro fish dumping there money on highstakes i agree but in o8 the player pools from higher stakes and low stakes are seperated it 2 different worlds of players. About the transaction fee little nonsense for game like o8 4 card if there is already o8 highstakes where o8 regs play.

sorry i have to say but this is reason why people like dont purseu anything is they always look to the can't. always try find reasons why should not happen.

I wanne make a bet to you and everyone in the o8 community that if you support me in this that

1. if a lot of people will support me that stars will give it a try and maybe even negotiated to stars that we willing to agree on giving it a try for 3 month and then stars can see if they like the numbers or not (for example) there is for sure a way that we as a community could let see stars see that there is a possibility that this is also great for pokerstars

2. If those highest stakes of 4 card pl o8 comes i know that there will be a lot of ego battles between pro's (as you would understand the eco system this is amazing for stars) when this is happening an other great thing will happen= other pro's from other games will join the mix people like jungleman biatchpeople etc all players who made a lot of poker again great for the economy. But i think it will not stop by this players i think a lot of plo pro's will go and jump in the action (i have very good reason for that) And i believe it very likely that a guy like isildur1 will join the mix he playing every week the 320 4 card mtt (and he has played a lot of fixed 4 card).
What will happen will be amazing for every party (only not for regs with to much of ego)
You can imagen if the players i call above will go and play thos noisebleed in our beatiful game this will get a lot of media attention what is amazing for o8.

I can tell you guys this if you going to support me with this in some years the moment that pokerstars put those noisebleed for our game will be seen as a key point for the growing populairity for o8!

It would be great but what limits and players?

100/200 and 500/1000 PL is $20-100K with 100 bb

I can think of lots who would want to play these games but few who would play them at pokerstars. The best guys you could ask are maybe isildur, durrrr, Ivey, Hellmuth, negreanu and possibly HeroValue! Some will play the rest know who might play. If you can get 2-3 big wallets to sign up then stars would run the games and it would attract everyone else

Being the best mtt and high stakes cash player, I know you are tight with all these high rollers and can ask them

if one of those weaker players you mansion will sit then there will be fore sure game running on 25/50 50/100 (but maybe ivey and isludur could be quit decent still in 4 card pl o8 i think)
i dont ask for unreal stakes just for normal highstakes like 25/50 50/100 that are stakes that every online player and public take serious (and rail). Highstakes db dont track 5 card hi/lo and for our hi/lo fans everyone sees this game as a banana game but still a lot of legend have been jumping in the action to. I think 4 card pl hi/lo will be way more easy to join for a lot of online legend and plo players that why i think it will creat a little boom in o8 if there just come 4 card highstakes table.
I can not understand that it look like i ask for someting strange. it very strange that pokerstars does not have this limits but have courchevel hi/lo up to 200/400.

I have never send a mail to stars why yet but i was hoping to get some support so more people would ask this to stars and i think stars is willing to give it a try if enough people want.
I think i am not even optimistic with my view on it, best case there will be a couple fish willing to play there and then it will get BOOMING with all the sick player joining and sick action. But fish will not easy go and play a banana game like 5 card hi/lo

look how much action there is in highstakes o8 4 card toernement during scoop and WCOOP this must be a sign for you all that those highstakes will get lot of action to if they would be availble. Come on guys why can nobody say in this thread that the support my idea?

Bike. If you can't understand the Stars business model you seriously aren't as bright as I thought. Everything Grim wrote is correct.

https://youtu.be/CPkEAtVZj8c

you dont understand the highstake eco system non of those guys are going to play 5$ spin and go or whatever ridic format stars come up with if they quite highstakes all those player quit playing on pokerstars period.
also what you dont understand that when highstacks is played most of the time the games runs around 1 or more "weaker" guys but this guys are most of time still be winners in the game or would be on lower stakes.
Again if you understand anything about the ecosystem if these player on the top of the schema play against each other they just recyling money into rake. for example i have battle tons of players who are net winners on stars and we as whole have make stars VERY much money for example i have played this month a lot of 2550 close to all vs net winners and pro's i think stars made over 5k in rake this month from me playing those games.

explain me again why it would be a good move from stars to delete the highstakes?

Stars announced 40BB games for all omaha games.(more gamble more rake)

I support your idea

I do not think high stakes games would affect the mid and low stakes games either if the minimum BI is high enough

Poker economy is like the world nowadays, it is a struggle and even in decline. In today's world people still buy yachts and jets but maybe strangely people don't buy "cheap" yachts and jets anymore - they buy the biggest models. This is because the sort of people buying small mid boats did so with money made during boom time. No more boom and the froth is gone but there are more super rich than ever

I say this because I think 100/200 or 500/1000 would be more popular with those who can afford to play them than 25/50 or 50/100. Most of these guys only play with people they know - the last thing durrr or haxton wants is to be pawned by an unknown and replayed on youtube forever

I say again if you want this to happen you need to talk to the big wallets first, then organise the first session with Stars and they will happily make the table happen

Bike, I've been around this scene for for nearly 10 years, seen both the rise and decline of not only O8 but the entire Poker economy and worked in the industry for the past 3 years. Trust me, I know how things work.

Now, I'm not arguing with you, I don't mean to discourage you from making best efforts to boost the HS PLO8 games, I'm just presenting you with the facts. I'd be just as interested to rail those games as you are, and if Stars reached out for feedback from the community (which they do regularly, see any thread that broken_jia's made in the past couple years) I'd be one of the first to give my support, but in a discussion like this, remember this is a forum, I'm still going to play devils advocate and let you know the other point of view.

Nevertheless, I do look forward to seeing if you get any traction here and also look forward to reading any future ideas you have into growing the game.

Ok thanks for your view ok it.
First i believe you understand the industrie better then me but i think i have a better view on what kind of player will play (battle) if stakes 25/50 and 50/100 will be availble on pokerstars. I can give you the likely names and you will see that are all players who made a lot on pokerstars and close to all "pro's"
I know enough from the industrie that this is good for poker(stars) and for sure for o8.

And maybe am i wrong maybe nobody will play (again is nto really negative for stars to have those tables) or all kind of midstacks and low stacks fish will join what would be amazing for the o8 because there will come a small boom but maybe not what stars want. I think the last is highly unlikely.

I know your view is way more in general and i agree with you but my view is on specific 25/50 50/100 4 card plo8 games and i think that specific is good for pokerstars (because of the high reg ego battles and the low numbers of fish joining) and very good for o8

I think i will go And send a mail to stars and ask if there is a possibily to talk about this isue because i know and believe if they think good about it they will see it will be for sure a +ev move to add those tablles for couple month and evaluate the numbers if the like it (low risk possible high returns if regs from all games will go crazy there)

Why i think this is the moment to do it?

Because i believe that now there is a very good change a lot of regs will play there and because if they going investigate it and the community goes behind this idea they will go and give it a try. Why?
Because they most likely will look to the numbers on 5 card pl hi/lo from last month and will see that all winning players are splashing money around there and stars raking a lot. It rightly so that for stars view it good change this will happen with the 4 card variant too.

Have send a mail will you guys keep updated

Hello,

Thank you for your comments.

We have forwarded your suggestion to our Ideation Team, who is best placed to address your comments and identify if this is something that we could implement at this time.

Rest assured that all feedback is very important to us and we consider all suggestions that are sent our way; we will inform you accordingly should it be decided that your suggestion is considered feasible.

Let us know if you have any other ideas or suggestions.



Regards,
Bruno
PokerStars Support

So you watched that video and are under the illusion that Stars gives a **** about high stakes skilled reg players? Have you paid any attention to Stars' changes in the last two years? Sure I admire your desire to change it but they don't care. Period.

PS. Before you were famous they had higher stakes tables. They have already deleted higher stakes 4 card tables.

When was this? Full Tilt had up to 25-50 NLO8 and 200 400 PL08 but I'm almost 100% stars has never had higher than 3-6 for NLO8 and I don't recall them ever having higher than 10-20 PLO8 but I could be wrong on that. WPN also recently done away with NLO8 above 3-6 (25-50 was the highest before) I especially dont understand why sites hate NLO8 so much. Aren't winrates higher in PLO8?

Pretty sure there were tables up to 200/400 plo8 on Stars post Full Tilt. Before 5-card was introduced.

Definitely had higher 4 card plo8 you are correct. Also used to have 500 PLO8 sgs. The trend to me is obvious. Don't know why Bike cannot understand that.

wait, plo8 sngs still run there?

yes your stakes
20$ bi

nah that's too high for me, couple buy-ins and i'd be busto

I may be missing something here and feel free to correct me if so. Before black Monday, Friday, whatever, I used to rail some high stakes games on Full Tilt. I can't even count the times I was tilted watching 15, 20, 25k or more pots and the rake was something stupid like, I don't remember exactly, but close to maybe 10 bucks, TOPS! Now, where I play the percentage raked is like 5-6% sure, it's capped, but hitting the cap is nearly impossible at micros and the high stakes games aren't even hitting 1% on average pots. So, yeah, they are making $5-10 a hand but the percentages on handled dollars is squat. Likewise, I would assume a withdrawal from one of these accounts is counted in the tens of thousands. So PS is way better off taking micro and ss rake money long term hands down. No contest. High stakes will never be a factor until possibly when or if it becomes legal and regulated. Understand a lot of the HS players were big names live and sponsored onliners back then. Different ball game altogether now.