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Pocket aces in FLO8 SNG

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01-31-2017 , 04:27 PM

zoogenhiem

old hand

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,632

6max SNG, early on, so still pretty deep and 6 handed. No one seems good.

LJ limps, I raise AdAhKh8h in the HJ, CO and BU fold, sb 3bets, bb cold calls, LJ calls, I 4bet cap, everyone calls.

Flop QcQd6d, sb checks, bb bets, LJ raises, I call, sb calls, bb 3bets, LJ cap 4bets, I fold.

So: what do you think of capping pre? I know i have at worst tied for the best hand but they're not great aces with a pretty meaningless low card.

Should I just muck flop to two bets? What if LJ had just flatted? And folding to 2 more bets must be good, right?

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01-31-2017 , 04:42 PM

zoogenhiem

old hand

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,632

Ok here's another one, 5 handed now and I start the hand with about 1500 chips at 100/200 small bet/big bet.

I open raise AhTc7d2d, button 3bets, sb cold calls, I call.

Flop A5J rainbow with one diamond, sb checks, I check, BU bets, sb calls, I call.

Turn 7 putting 2 hearts out, sb bets, I call, button raises, sb calls, I fold.

I think I remembered that correctly. Fold flop? Call turn?

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01-31-2017 , 07:55 PM

Matt_PBA

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 406

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoogenhiem

I would have folded the hand, but I play a little snug perhaps. Someone 3bets and then a 4bet in my mind makes me think they have AA too and a better low draw. I would feel better if I had a draw to high..like AAK2 or AAK3, but I am not expert just my thoughts.

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01-31-2017 , 08:08 PM

SpewUrStack

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 60

Regarding your first hand I think I'm folding 100% of the time. Your hand looks pretty but plays horribly post flop if you don't hit a set of flop a draw. Once the 3 bet and 4 bet come in I know I'm up against better Aces.

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01-31-2017 , 08:09 PM

SpewUrStack

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_PBA

Agreed

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01-31-2017 , 08:39 PM

Matt_PBA

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 406

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoogenhiem

Fold flop

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01-31-2017 , 08:55 PM

zoogenhiem

old hand

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,632

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpewUrStack

You're all seriously advocating open folding pre facing a limp? Or folding for one betore after the sb 3bets? I guess my 4bet was horrendous then but I figured I knew I had at least tied for the best hand.

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01-31-2017 , 09:02 PM

NickMPK

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,569

I think these are both pretty straightforward folds on the flop.

In the first hand, I would just flat call the 3 bet. You probably aren't really an equity favorite over the blinds. But it's pretty marginal either way.

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01-31-2017 , 09:05 PM

Matt_PBA

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 406

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoogenhiem

Well then just call. I don't see the value of 4betting. You are building the pot, but you have to know someone has a better low. Also, you are more than likely facing other hands with aces in them, so flopping set is unlikely. You do have a draw to broadway, but I don't seeing winning the low or scooping. Just a thought.

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01-31-2017 , 09:09 PM

#10

SpewUrStack

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoogenhiem

Folding to the 3 bet.

So many other AAxx hands have you crushed pre/post flop. Like I said your hand looks pretty but that's about it. If you're thinking you're at least tied for the best hand pre that means you think/know your Aces are countered. No possiblity for a set then. So what are looking for post flop? A Flush or Broadway draw? Your low possibilities are virtually nonexistent with 8 being your only other low card.

Your 4 bet accomplished nothing but bloating a pot pre with a marginal holding that isn't going to play well post flop if your Aces a countered.

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01-31-2017 , 09:35 PM

#11

zoogenhiem

old hand

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,632

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpewUrStack

Ok agreed 4bet was bad but folding for 1 small bet more 4 ways

No way that's right.

I'm pretty sure I win this hand 1 in 12 times. This is limit after all.

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01-31-2017 , 11:11 PM

#12

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,055

Hand 1, folding the flop is pretty normal absent more reads on opponents, sometimes we need to stand our ground against agressive opponents overplaying kk/jj or who just read you for aa and trying to make you fold, 4bet is fine but not required

Hand 2, your line looks ok, top pair and a bad low draw is normally enough to see a turn card unless your opponent is extremely tight, when the raise comes in on the turn we are normally in bad shape/sometimes drawing dead

Folding hand 1 to a 3bet pre is horrible advice

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01-31-2017 , 11:39 PM

#13

NickMPK

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,569

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpewUrStack

Folding to the 3 bet.

Whatever else you do in any of these hands, don't do this.

FWIW, I would probably call the flop in the second hand in a cash game but fold in this tournament spot.

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02-01-2017 , 12:04 AM

#14

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,055

I missed hand 2 being tournament vs cash, I think you can make a good case for a tight fold on the flop

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02-01-2017 , 01:01 AM

#15

Hero Value

BBV Series Inaugural Champ

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 9,258

I'd flat vs the 3bet in hand #1, and then probably fold flop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickMPK

Whatever else you do in any of these hands, don't do this
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monikrazy

Folding hand 1 to a 3bet pre is horrible advice

This and this lol. That would be a terrible fold.

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02-01-2017 , 07:22 AM

#16

SpewUrStack

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 60

My reasoning for folding pre to the 3bet was because OP said he figured he was at least tied w/ the best starting hand. So, if OP figures his Aces are countered what exactly is he hoping for seeing the flop? A flush or broadway draw? His low possibilities are pretty terrible. Perhaps I play too tight...but if I thought my aces were countered I'd give consideration to folding to the 3bet.

Now if OP didn't feel his Aces were countered then yes, flat the 3bet and proceed from there.

Again, my advice was based off of OP feeling his Aces were dead. His Aces being dead equates to his hand being pretty marginal IMO.

Is my thought process here wrong??

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02-01-2017 , 12:49 PM

#17

zoogenhiem

old hand

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,632

How can I assume I'm vs AA exactly by my opponents? I'm sure in a game full of bad players, people are 3betting in the sb worse than AA only. My saying I'm "at least tied" isn't me figuring anything other than stating a fact. By definition, I have the nuts (the best possible made hand) preflop, although of course it doesn't mean much in 4 card poker.

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02-01-2017 , 02:25 PM

#18

Geranomo

stranger

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5

Read through all the replies here and seems like a lot of amateurs are posting. Do not overvalue AAK8 in o8....it is a one way hand and against 3 or 4 other players you will never realize the full equity of the aces...you have to hit a set or flush draw to continue on the flop, but in a 4 way capped pot there are likely no live aces remaining to hit a set...at most i am limping preflop and calling 1 raise...i would raise to iso only from button or blinds with 1 limper or raise before me...once isolated the aces are easier to play...

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02-01-2017 , 03:02 PM

#19

NickMPK

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Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,569

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geranomo

I'm not sure how you think the responses are overvaluing the hand. He is already raising to isolate against one limper. Limping would make a 4- or 5-way pot much more likely. And most of us are telling him not to cap after the 3 bet, and to fold postflop.

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02-02-2017 , 02:36 AM

#20

Hero Value

BBV Series Inaugural Champ

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 9,258

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geranomo

Lol. Yep, all a bunch of bunch of amateurs, buddy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickMPK

This.

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02-02-2017 , 03:31 AM

#21

billygstar

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Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 6,115

bunch of noobz! AA trash hand....

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02-02-2017 , 01:47 PM

#22

Matt_PBA

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 406

Quote:

Originally Posted by billygstar

bunch of noobz! AA trash hand....

I think every one is pretty much saying to fold.

Quote

02-02-2017 , 02:10 PM

#23

Geranomo

stranger

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by billygstar

bunch of noobz! AA trash hand....

Yea I just love having bare AA in a split pot game 4 ways to the flop.

Quote

02-02-2017 , 08:10 PM

#24

billygstar

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 6,115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geranomo

Yea I just love having bare AA in a split pot game 4 ways to the flop.

gotta be init to winit is my motto

Quote

02-03-2017 , 11:12 AM

#25

St.Boston

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 159

First hand, those aces look pretty don't they, not a good flop for us, muck, grumble to yourself that you had the best hand going into the flop and wait for the next hand. Happens all the time. Second hand is another whiff when we see the flop, we are prob against another ace deuce w/ better kicker hand. I'm fold here also.

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