I think, I play way too passive/weak in these tournaments and get myself into spots, where I have to do a lot of tricky decisions all the time.

Here is an example hand, where I ended up making a hero call. What are better ways to play this?

Situation: Late in the tourney, 11 players left. No particular reads on the villain. My image is probably that of a weak/tight player.

Blinds 1000/2000
UTG: 56.341
MP: 54.322
CO: 23.640
BTTN: 60.534
SB: 95.067
BB: 51.554

I am the BB with Ac 5c Kd 3h
Action to me UTG calls 2000, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 1000.

I check: Should I raise here? If so, why and how much?

Flop: Kc 8h Qc
SB checks
I bet 2000 into 6000
UTG calls 2000,
SB folds.
Pot is now 10000.

I guess, one of the best flops, I could catch. I bet small, inviting weaker hands to come along. Is this wrong? If so, what should I do instead and why?

Turn 9h

I check, UTG bets 5000.
I call 5000.
Pot is now 20000.

I don't like the 9h. There is now straights out there. I won't be able to make a lo. But the NFD is too strong to fold at this point. So I check and reveal weakness, opening myself up to get bluffed out of the pot (like it seems to happen all the time). What are better lines of play?

River: 9s
I check,
UTG bets 10.000
I call 10.000.

There is no lo possible, so this is a decision for the whole pot, since I am offered good odds and there are so many missed draws possible, I decide to make the call, closing my eyes and expecting half my stack to move to the UTG player.

Thanks.

I'd raise here for value, pot is a decent sizing.

There are several different strategies you can choose in such spots. Betting small makes sense for the reason you give.

wp
OK. What hands do you think he can have here that he would bluff the river? Start from pre-flop. From what I've seen, people like to limp high hands, especially KKxx. You have the nut clubs, so he can't have that. You are not blocking any JT, you are only blocking one king. For me, this is a pretty clear fold unless I've seen villain overbluff in many spots.

That is not necessarily the real issue. Maybe you play all your strong hands too fast, leaving your mediocre hands very vulnerable (i.e. your checks/calls are too weak!) and you get bluffed out a lot because people can pick up on this.

I think your thought process in this hand was fine, even if you got frustrated and called river.

Thanks, you are very helpful and encouraging

Good point about the blockers, I didn't think about them at all.

What I actually thought, when making the call

1) Hands that beat me: AA, KK, QQ, JT, 88 and a random 9.
2) If he had KK or QQ, he would almost always raise the flop.
3) If he had AA or a random 9, I expect him to check back the turn most of the time. Also, I'm pretty sure, he would raise any AA hand preflop.
4) What hands will he bet with like this: JT, bluffs, semibluffs and sometimes 88. But, I also thought, he would bet bigger with JT, because most people bet the pot, when they sit on a really strong holding. Especially, since there is a FD out there and the straight is so vulnerable.

So yeah, what made me call in the end was his betsizing on the turn.

I should add: This was a microstakes tourney.

What are other lines of play in a spot like this? After seeing his hand, I really wondered, if I missed out on an opportunity to stack someone. Starting with checking instead of raising preflop.

(He showed up with Jc 2c 3s 8d)

I guess I should have asked. Yes, I think this is very relevant, especially
if this is true, and I can believe you are right on this.
I don't think this is the worst hand in the world to bluff with, but if he limps this and bets the turn (imo unnecessary with his hand), he's going to have lots of hands that he's going to have to bluff with (i.e. he is overbluffing river). Especially if your read that he'd almost always raise KK/QQ on the flop is correct. Against the tendencies he shows in this hand imo AK is no longer a clear fold on the river, but a clear call. This can certainly be seen as a somewhat results-oriented analysis, but it's more due to the new info we gain from seeing how he played this hand. Hope that makes sense.
On the flop, your hand plays good also as a check-call. Check-raising is not impossible either, if you think someone is willing to put a lot of money in with a worse draw. It's just a good hand no matter what you do.

Yes, if people are limping weak 23xx-hands you should definitely be raising real hands like AK3x for value, even from the blinds.

Yeah, I really wanted to avoid this. The result was actually great. Not only did I win a nice pot, the MP player cheered for me. Then the whole table suddenly started calling him down light and he busted in the next ~10 hands.

However, I really need to overcome the fear of playing huge pots against super aggressive players.

Some tourney before this one, there was a guy sitting right before me, who was 3betting pretty much every second hand, he played and also playing very active.
He got headsup against really weak holdings and outplayed his opponents mercilessly with his medium holdings gaining an astonishing 8:1 chiplead on everyone else in very few hands. While that's great and all, I felt really helpless. Seeing him, scooping pots with a lonely pair of tens, while I had mucked my pairs/flushes and straights preflop.

I have more example hands from the last tourney. Rethinking them, I play terrible.

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Tournament - 20/40 Blinds + 5 - 5 players - View hand 3078646
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: 3956 M = 46.54
UTG: 2597 M = 30.55
CO: 3066 M = 36.07
BTN: 3721 M = 43.78
Hero (SB): 2946 M = 34.66

Pre Flop: (t85) Hero is SB with 8 K A 5
3 folds, Hero calls 20, BB checks

It's very early in the tourney. I think, my hand is pretty strong for a BB/SB situation and you can't win by folding.
However, I don't want to get involved in a big pot with an unknown player, so I limp in, to test the waters. (Is he gonna raise it or even shove? Often players in his spot do it with any 4 cards).

Flop: (105) 4 7 2 (2 players)
Hero bets 40, BB calls 40

Okay, so I have second best lo, 2 overs and a double gutter. I might also be able to rep the K-high flush, but nobody will fold any flush ever, so that's out of the equation.

I bet out to see, if my opponent has any interest in this flop. Not sure, what I will do, if I am getting raised though.

While writing this, I realize, this is probably a pretty good flop for me, but the nitty (damn it, where are the nuts?!) weak style takes over.

Turn: (185) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets 115, BB raises to 323, Hero calls 208

Bingo?! I do turn the (current) Nut-Hi with second best Lo. I should actually be really happy, somewhat, I am not. However, I still bet for value and .... get raised! This completly throws me off balance and instead of thinking the situation through, I make a quick call and see a river.

River: (831) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets 416, Hero calls 416

Okay, the unlikely flush arrived. Since my opponent showed aggression on the turn, I instantly check. He bets, I start thinking for the first time since his raise and make a call, expecting to win at least half the pot, most of the time.

He shows 5s 9c 3c Js, we chop it and I take a note that he did semibluff the turn.

What should I have done on all streets, but especially on the turn?
Thanks.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your decisions. Pre both limping (to trap!) and raising are fine, depending on what kind of overall strategy you are playing. Your flop sizing is a bit small, but it's no huge deal.

Turn is interesting. I somehow have the notion that in small stakes, people don't raise-fold. Thus, shoving for value is probably the best action. He actually has the small straight and 53-low, so he was definitely not semibluffing, but raising for value. I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with trapping, though.

River check-call, what else? Shoving and check-shoving have some merit though, you are so rarely scooped here.

Thanks, that's great feedback. I didn't even consider, he might be doing this for value, because ... well, it's only the bad end of the straight and a medium lo. But that just shows, how much I have to change my perception. I guess, these are the spots, where I miss a ton of value, when sitting in his shoes. So, from his perspective raise and eventually raise/fold are good actions?

His hand is strong on the turn. 2nd nut high and 3rd nut low in a heads up pot is simply a very good hand. If I'd raise his hand it would definitely not be to fold, but to try to get it in.

I guess you are a bit stuck on the idea that you need nuts in this game. In heads up pots, decent hand both ways is a monster. You definitely missed value here.

Take a different perspective. Let him fear you ... Your an unknown player raising out of position - (preflop, at least I would raise here) -- He should be afraid of you. Same as in NLHE - SB vs. BB we should be open raising very wide.

Don't be afraid to play big pots.. that's how we get chips. = ) .. plus the more familiar you become with the game the more post flop spots you can find to exploit to take hands down on semi-bluffs and/or when it's very likely they missed their low / draw / etc. Through barreling..

I wouldn't say players in his spot do it with any 4 cards... I find omaha players play a little more straight-forwardly on average than hold'em players.. Thus more likely to not bluff rag holdings...

When you flop 2nd nut low, and your hand is under-repped and it's very unlikely he has A3... I like taking the approach of building up the pot initially ... not betting too big, and then if you have same hand or of course end up with nut low bet bigger on the river (if you don't hit high) to fold out his high equity... like a little over pot..

You got to start thinking about his range a little.. I know it's difficult - I mean here essentially he has 4 random cards... if two of those cards specifically aren't A3 - then you have (well or A5 where you split) guaranteed half pot.. Thus you have more control to manipulate and take control of the hand.. Whenever you have half locked or Very likely too, than I like to try and build a pot... and then take it away on the river by making it very hard for him to call with marginal highs.. If we end up with a good low and high.. Then 'considering' his range thus far.. what can he call... Will he call a big bet? .. Price him in a bit when we want value..

On the Turn, I would Bump it up to around 1200 or just shove. You have the NUT high, and 2nd nut low.. Your not really thinking about his realistic range - your thinking worst case scenario..

On River, as played I would check-shove on his arse... because there's still sets in his range and weak flushes... see if they can/want to call for everything still especially against a tight/non-bluffy player. You can do this cause you almost for sure have one side locked up...

At least that's how I played it and i've won a number of O8, PLO8, BIG-0 and such live tourney's...

G'luck. Mixed O 1500$ this weekend = )

Just got to change your way of thinking Cat.. it'll come a bit with experience. You're the predator. They are the prey.

Like a shark navigating it's home turf calmly and skillfully - quietly approaching the prey and striking when they least expect.

Still it's patient, skillful and precise - waiting for the right time to strike, but knowing it's place and the victims. lol.. something like that.

Still you want to navigate carefully and find good spots - but come from the mind set that these are your waters and you direct them. (helps w/experience of course) but try shifting a bit in that perspective gradually...

You'll probably lose some big pots initially picking wrong spots or not quite thinking out all aspects.. but learn from it, brush it off and use that wisdom towards your next prey .

Wow, you guys (and/or girls) are very supportive.

I played another tourney and tried to take your advice at heart:

Situation: Mid to late stage of the tourney. I am 11th in chips. The villain has recently arrived at the table and was tournament chipleader for quite some time. I noticed he is very active (playing around 60% of hands), often entering pots with raises or reraises. I also noticed, he really doesn't like to fold and people started to avoid playing pots with him. He just lost a quarter of his stack in a big pot, where he called a 3 way all-in from a bunch of shortstacks with an 236X double suited hand. This tends me to believe, he know's what he is doing, even though he seems to be a maniac at first glance.
As far as my image goes. He only saw me play one hand, where I check/folded to the first small bet (I was the BB in a limped pot and completly wiffed).

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Tournament - t500/t1000 Blinds + t125 - 5 players - View hand 3078834
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): t45127 M = 21.24
UTG: t44119 M = 20.76
CO: t56797 M = 26.73
BTN: t78591 M = 36.98
SB: t12614 M = 5.94

Pre Flop: (t2125) Hero is BB with 7 2 6 5
2 folds, BTN raises to t3000, 1 fold, Hero calls t2000

Given the situation, my thought process is:
1) I need to defend my blind against this player and start doing it rather sooner than later.
2) This is a decent hand that will be rather easy to play postflop, compared to a lot of other reasonable hands. So I feel a little more comfortable to play oop.
3) Finally, I would really like to 3bet him, just to see how he reacts to it. But then I am not so sure, if this a good idea. After all, usually I would like to see a cheap flop with this hand in late position, so why I should I build a big pot preflop with a hand, that's going to miss a lot. On the other hand, he's raising and reraising so many hands, I have to assume that I am ahead of that range ?!

** Is 3betting here an alternative/better play? I haven't really considered that I have to look a lot like Aces to him, if I do that, especially in this environment, where people pretty much never 3bet.

Flop: (t7125) 3 J 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets t3000, Hero raises to t42002 all in, BTN calls t39002

Okay. First glance: My eyes go wide and I only see, weeeeh straightflushdraw!. Then I slow down and realize, I'm blocking the 2d. So, what am I really sitting on? I flopped a small flush, a big wrap and a pretty good Lo draw.
Before this thread: I would probably check/called, because a higher flush or better Lo-draw is likely, when somebody bets into this kind of board.

But then I remember: Out of all the possible hands, only Ad 7d 2 X has me dead and buried. I'm blocking 3 diamonds, I'm blocking one deuce (Blockers, thx Amok!), so it's not very likely. Even against higher flushes with A2, I can still hit a straightflush or they get counterfitted and I make a better Lo.
On the other hand, there is tons and tons of hands that I pretty much have crushed here, because I'm winning the high half with my flush and there isn't many hands that can make a better lo then me. ... So in all actuality, I'm sitting on a monster and you guys made me realize it.

I'm now only worried, how to get action. If I bet out, he's probably going to simply call with pretty much anything that has a J, an overpair, a straightdraw and/or the Nut-Lo draw and reevaluate on the turn. On the other hand, I have never seen him check behind a flop or fold to a shove. So, I decide to check/shove and it happens.

Turn: (t91129) T (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t91129) A (2 players - 1 is all in)

He turns over 3h 2h Ad 6c and I scoop a nice pot.

****
After this hand, he somewhat slows down with attacking my blind, but still keeps accumulating chips and does so way faster then me.

So, some hands later, UTG limps and the whole table limps behind. I am sitting in the BigBlind (once again) with (A7)A5
My feeling is, if I can take out this particular player, the field will be a lot weaker and I have a much better shot at winning the tournament.
So, I really want to get my hand headsup against him, but then 3-betting will only turn it face up and I will be oop. Also, I don't know if somebody decides to reshove or call. To make things short, I shove and my villain is the only caller with A2(25). Unfortunately he scoops me, but I'm still pretty happy about my decision.

Cheers

Add: I'd also like to know, if my read: He's probably a LAG but not a bad player (compared to the field of 2.20 NO8 ofc) could be correct.
After seeing his hand, my first impression was: wtf, how can he stack off on a 3 flush board, but then, he's blocking the Ad and I don't have to have a flush.
If I was the average micro NO8 player, my range would probably include a lot of sets, two pair type hands and weak straightdraws here.

Which then makes me think, that I myself should call a lot lighter, when sitting in his shoes or is this a mistake?

Welcome to the forums!

Shoving with a(d) is something most regs tend to do. Hoping the other player is scared of this.
However on lower limits this will happen more then it will in the higher ones.

You are blocking his flush combo's because u have 3 diamonds in your hand
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Edit, he called you down hoping he could get the low... (or he misread his hand)
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Never 3 bet this hand. (you don't want to play big pots with 4 low cards(debatable if u are chasing bounty's, or pressuring icm))
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The AA is a snap shove, so as played wp.(the hands u are giving us, it sounds like u played against a nitty/i only play A2 and never fold it reg)
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His huge overcall is a big mistake. If he would shove or try to bluff you it would not be a big mistake. But he called it down hoping he could only get 50%.
OR he might have a big fish tag on you, some kind of grudge and has seen u bluff or make weird plays.(we don't know his story)
Sounds to me like you played against Raichaans(some aggro person who think hes god)

I would discount the 2 pair hands and straight draws from randoms getting it all in.
Perhaps 2 pair with some kind of low :P.

Hey, thanks.

Well, that's only because of the 2 hands I posted. It just so happens, he had A2 hands both times. I have seen him with a plethora of different hands (including lots of hi only ones), but he did 3bet (to isolate, I suppose) with lots of them. As I said, I don't have a HUD to give you exact stats, but he was very active, table bully like.

That's actually also possible, but not very likely. I think, I would remember a player like him with such a huge table presence. Err, and his name was not Raichaans =P

Alright. Thanks.

As far as 3betting goes. I actually don't have a proper 3betting range. I started to do it with the ABBw types, once we were closer to the bubble (and people behind me did actually fold to a 3bet). I mainly did this, when I had medium stacks sitting behind me.
Turns out, people like to call for half their stack and then check/fold the flop, which ofc was very proftable for me with a decent stacksize.

Great Feedback btw. I start feeling like a baby shark now =P

I feel that the OP is overly concerned with blind defense. Am i wrong? Im not a PL specialist player...


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Interesting question.
My thoughts on this in general:
There is a huge difference between pot limit and no limit and also a slight difference between 6max/8max and full ring.
The no limit structure does have antes on top of blinds. I think, it is important to avoid a situation, where the BTTN opens almost any 4 and shows profit. If I recall from No-Limit Holdem, you have to defend with at least 45% of hands (assuming the small blind defends ~8% or something) so that the BTTN cannot open any 4 profitably. But then I don't have a clue about the actual math behind that.

Here I make a decision based on the particular player. From my point of view he is stealing tons of antes/blinds, because people are backing down, avoiding pots with him, etc. So, if I want to win the tourney, I have to take on this guy, because it is not very likely, that he's just randomly going to bust. And I need to do so as long as I have a stacksize that can actually threaten him.

But yeah, interesting. How much should one defend your blind in this kind of tourneys?

Only part of this I really hate is the check pre, particularly in micro-stakes where narrowing your range so greatly won't hurt you as much as vs good players. You have a huge edge on whatever nonsense UTG is limping and on the SB complete. After your raise, UTG will likely call and SB will either call or fold. If he calls it's great because it builds a bigger pot while you have the best of it and if he folds that's great too since he forfeits his equity and your AK-headlined hand plays great HU.

The more hands you play should grant more +EV opportunities, versus overly defending any four cards out of position. So there has to be a tipping point where your hand in the BB is too good to just give up, versus the opportunities you have against the skill you perceive at the table. Plus any image of overly tight can be accounted for with the range you decide to ultimately fight back with. All of this is complicated by the relative weakness of any "good" hand versus any four cards preflop. If preflop EV is not the concern, and table image is more important, then that table image can be exploited, when you totally wiff a flop for instance.


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Here is another spot, where I'm completly lost...

Situation: 3 more players to the money. I'm 21/32 in chips. The small blind has played really tight and straightforward so far.

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Tournament - t350/t700 Blinds - 5 players - View hand 3080258
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: t4484 6.41 BBs
BTN: t28355 40.51 BBs
SB: t15119 21.60 BBs
Hero (BB): t9725 13.89 BBs
UTG: t42059 60.08 BBs

Pre Flop: (t1050) Hero is BB with 3 4 K 2
3 folds, SB calls t350, Hero checks

I'm actually never raising hands like these. Is this a mistake? I would however almost never raise against this player, because I suspect his limping range is pretty strong.

Flop: (t1400) K 8 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

I flopped top and bottom pair ... I find myself quite often in this spot.
If this was PLO (Hi), I would consider my hand to be fearly strong (headsup) on a board this dry.
In O8 however the small pair hurts my lowdraw and I never know what to do. I just realized I had some backup draw here, but still.
I check, because I really don't want to get raised with this stacksize, see a turn before I reevaluate and I also think by checking I keep bluffs in his range. However, giving free cards seems like a bad thing to me. So, should I bet to protect my hand?

Turn: (t1400) 8 (2 players)
SB bets t700, Hero calls t700
The bet can mean anything. I now have top two with a weak kicker. Should I raise here and just hope he doesn't have a better K, AA or a random 8?

River: (t2800) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Should I bet here in an attempt to make him fold?

He showed Qc 8h Js 9s and we chopped.

Edit: I also felt a little embarassed that I thought, he might be trapping with a strong hand after seeing this one.

pot the flop chek the turn, and cc river

Preflop fine to me. Definitely would bet flop. Would never raise turn but always call. I would bet river here once he checks as your low is almost always good and he cant feel great calling near the bubble on that board.

Thread is a little bit old, sorry for didding it up, but I'm so happy.

THANK YOU ALL

I just won my first tournament. ))